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JJLehto 
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Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Points: 34550
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 Posted: September 12 2016 at 23:41 |
All I'm saying is Brady always had very good, though unspectacular numbers up to 2007. 60-64% completion rate, mid 3000 to low 4000 yards, always 20-30 TD range and a generally 2-1 TD/INT ratio. He had teams with good defense, run game I just am saying that Brady is an undoubtedly very good QB, but I never actually thought of him as god tier...just a very good QB on a good team. Much like successful QBs of the past. Or heck even today...Russel Wilson, very good QB not sure I'd put him in the elite category. Hell Peyton looked liked sh*t all 2015 and was dragged to a SB win.
It was 2007 on things started getting a little whacky and his numbers went to Madden mode.
Also, 2007 was when he got Randy Moss. Or in recent years, Aaron Hernandez and Gronk. Remember how night and day the offense looked without and with Gronk? I know it may sound bad, and yeah I have a history of being a rabble rouser since it's fun, but I do think my claim is legit and it's not a knock on Brady. More like a realistic assessment.
I give huge credit to Bill, he's created something special. He can plug in anyone and make it work. Sure, Brady helps big time but also..Matt Cassel of all people lead them to 11-5. Bill has created a beautiful system, all these slot WRs, spread, a deadly efficient QB who can run the system in his sleep, add in a Gronk and it's a winner. I am sincere this time in that I'm not trying to bash Brady, who's undeniably very good, and Bill who despite my deep issues with is probably the coach of this generation. I mean same on defense, he can go from 3-4 to 4-3 year to year, plug in players, he's very non ideological. As time has gone on I still dislike Bill but have grown to appreciate the rarity of what he's done.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: September 12 2016 at 23:50 |
Seems like the normal for Pitt. Big Ben is still good and Deangelo Williams defies age. Antonio Brown is a beast.
The Rams have abandoned St Louis and moved to LA but same ol same ol.... 10 first downs in a whole game? Keenum sucked, Gurley was contained. Their best WR remains Kenny Britt. Oi LA is in for a bad year  |
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Man With Hat
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Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
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Points: 166183
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Posted: September 13 2016 at 00:26 |
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LOL
First game back in LA and the rams secure a gooseegg.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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rushfan4
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Location: Michigan, U.S.
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Posted: September 13 2016 at 04:26 |
Lions - 1 down 11 to go! :)
As far as Brady goes, I've always wondered if you put him behind the Detroit Lions' offensive line, does he put up the kind of numbers and win the championships that he has or did he fizzle out many years ago and go down in history as just another Lions' quarterback who spent most of his games lying on his back looking at the ceiling with 300 pound defensive linemen lying on top of him.
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AEProgman
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2012
Location: Toadstool
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Points: 1789
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Posted: September 13 2016 at 06:49 |
Steelers O looked good as advertised (even the pinball TD catch ), the D still has issues but hopefully they can gel. Thank God for Williams, nice to have 2 good running backs.
Hope we can stay clear of the injury bug this year...
St. Louis city had to have a huge smile on their faces as the LA lambs...er, Rams stunk up the joint.
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Padraic
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Joined: February 16 2006
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Posted: September 13 2016 at 08:46 |
 rushfan4 wrote:
Lions - 1 down 11 to go! :)
As far as Brady goes, I've always wondered if you put him behind the Detroit Lions' offensive line, does he put up the kind of numbers and win the championships that he has or did he fizzle out many years ago and go down in history as just another Lions' quarterback who spent most of his games lying on his back looking at the ceiling with 300 pound defensive linemen lying on top of him. |
It's possible, but you could make that argument for Bradshaw, Montana, and Aikman as well.
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rushfan4
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Posted: September 13 2016 at 09:54 |
Padraic wrote:
rushfan4 wrote:
Lions - 1 down 11 to go! :)
As far as Brady goes, I've always wondered if you put him behind the Detroit Lions' offensive line, does he put up the kind of numbers and win the championships that he has or did he fizzle out many years ago and go down in history as just another Lions' quarterback who spent most of his games lying on his back looking at the ceiling with 300 pound defensive linemen lying on top of him. |
It's possible, but you could make that argument for Bradshaw, Montana, and Aikman as well. |
Definitely. Obviously it is all hypothetical but as a long-suffering Lions' fan, you are led to always wonder "what if?" It was always a debate with Barry Sanders. How good might he have been with the Redskins offensive line in front of him? On the other hand, was the Lions' offensive line really that bad in front of him or was it nearly an impossible task to try and block for a guy who you had no idea where he was or where he might be going since he improvised most of his runs on the spot.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: September 13 2016 at 22:08 |
Padraic wrote:
rushfan4 wrote:
Lions - 1 down 11 to go! :)
As far as Brady goes, I've always wondered if you put him behind the Detroit Lions' offensive line, does he put up the kind of numbers and win the championships that he has or did he fizzle out many years ago and go down in history as just another Lions' quarterback who spent most of his games lying on his back looking at the ceiling with 300 pound defensive linemen lying on top of him. |
It's possible, but you could make that argument for Bradshaw, Montana, and Aikman as well. |
I mean, Brady (and he's obviously not close to alone in this) does tend to do less well under pressure than without. Again kudos to Bill for nearly always maintaining a great line in front of him, but the few times he can get pressured, he's rattled. I think Scott's point is very valid. What you say is also valid, but that's exactly it...QBs even today still get a bit too much credit. Like I said look at Wilson, or even Brees and Peyton. Their SB wins came when they had some degree of a better run game and with good defenses. A superb QB can maybe drag a team farther than they should, but a good team can also drag a busted and woeful Peyton Manning all the way to a SB win.
Edited by JJLehto - September 13 2016 at 22:09
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Points: 34550
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Posted: September 13 2016 at 23:22 |
On a more fun note.
"The Los Angeles Rams have still not scored a point since Dec 24, 1994" Oh that one's brutal |
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Padraic
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Posted: September 14 2016 at 07:20 |
JJLehto wrote:
Padraic wrote:
rushfan4 wrote:
Lions - 1 down 11 to go! :)
As far as Brady goes, I've always wondered if you put him behind the Detroit Lions' offensive line, does he put up the kind of numbers and win the championships that he has or did he fizzle out many years ago and go down in history as just another Lions' quarterback who spent most of his games lying on his back looking at the ceiling with 300 pound defensive linemen lying on top of him. |
It's possible, but you could make that argument for Bradshaw, Montana, and Aikman as well. |
I mean, Brady (and he's obviously not close to alone in this) does tend to do less well under pressure than without. Again kudos to Bill for nearly always maintaining a great line in front of him, but the few times he can get pressured, he's rattled. I think Scott's point is very valid. What you say is also valid, but that's exactly it...QBs even today still get a bit too much credit. Like I said look at Wilson, or even Brees and Peyton. Their SB wins came when they had some degree of a better run game and with good defenses. A superb QB can maybe drag a team farther than they should, but a good team can also drag a busted and woeful Peyton Manning all the way to a SB win.
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It's a team game, and to win championships you need excellence in all phases of the game.
All great championship winning quarterbacks had great teams.
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rushfan4
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Posted: September 14 2016 at 08:54 |
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Dan Marino may have been the best throwing quarterback of the last 30 years, but he never won a Super Bowl. I think mostly because Miami never really had a very good defense. Although at one time they had a good nickname "The Killer Bees", as many of their better defensive players last names began with the letter B.
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Padraic
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Posted: September 14 2016 at 10:01 |
rushfan4 wrote:
Dan Marino may have been the best throwing quarterback of the last 30 years, but he never won a Super Bowl. I think mostly because Miami never really had a very good defense. Although at one time they had a good nickname "The Killer Bees", as many of their better defensive players last names began with the letter B.
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It was the Patriots who ruined what would have surely been one of the greatest Super Bowls ever, and Miami's last chance to get Marino a ring. Miami was the only team to beat Chicago that year.
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JJLehto
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Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: September 18 2016 at 10:12 |
Giants/Saints. NO has NO defense, but we have hopefully improved ours...so praying its not another 90 point shootout like last year. But Dak Prescott wasn't really a test, so today will be.
EDIT: So far, 0-0....guess that's a semi good sign. Glad to see us holding them out, but how the hell are we pitching a 0 so far??? ugh EDIT: oh, found a live stream. Apparently 3 fumbles is how the Giants have 0 points. jesus.I mean, clearly the defense has held but this is the Saints...they can light up at any point, those 3 fumbles are basically a game killer.
Edited by JJLehto - September 18 2016 at 12:36
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Man With Hat
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Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
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Posted: September 18 2016 at 12:38 |
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Classic lions performance just before halftime!
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: September 18 2016 at 13:14 |
It was a 53 yarder, so guess it's forgivable but a missed Josh Brown FG AND penalties put the Giants in a 1st & 30....despite moving the ball all day Giants lead 10-3 with a return TD being the only score. Oi....
Ouch, Jimmy is out for NE, looks they are down to the #3. They were already up huge in this game but ya know, 3 TD game from Jimmy, if the 3rd stringer plays well can we finally admit Brady is part of a really really good system and not the GOAT? |
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The Dark Elf
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Location: Michigan
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Posted: September 18 2016 at 13:49 |
Man With Hat wrote:
Classic lions performance just before halftime! |
Some new guy named Pen Alties is leading the Lions in total yardage.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
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Posted: September 18 2016 at 14:22 |
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Is it too early to start the chant "FIRE CALDWELL"? I suppose watching the Lions like I have for 5 decades, one would see every conceivable way a team can lose a game. The Lions continue to offer new methods of blowing things. 138 yards in penalties? Three TDs called back? That sloppiness can be placed on the players, certainly, but the head coach is responsible to instill discipline in a team. And the human fence post is probably still standing on the sidelines, staring blankly at nothing.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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JJLehto
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Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Points: 34550
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Posted: September 18 2016 at 14:22 |
Win is a win, but holy sh*t that was uuuuugly. That win goes pretty much entirely to the defense and Victor Cruz, who thus far is playing like he didn't miss nearly 2 years due to horrible injury. Offense is showing some nasty potential...can really move the ball and put up killer points, just gotta cut out these dumb ass mistakes.
Technically great game from Eli 78% complete 368 yards, no picks. Since I had to listen on radio I can't tell if he really had many errors, but sounded like there were a few dropped balls that were not his doing, and the fumbles and mistakes pretty much removed him from ever reaching the red zone. I know one fumble was his doing. Still, pretty excited about a 2-0 start and dare I say....I have some actual hope for the team 
Cowboys eek out a win, my boy Greg Olsen is having a beast game for Carolina, Baltimore comes back against Cleveland (what??)
Edited by JJLehto - September 18 2016 at 14:23
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Man With Hat
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Joined: March 12 2005
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Posted: September 18 2016 at 14:25 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
Man With Hat wrote:
Classic lions performance just before halftime! |
Some new guy named Pen Alties is leading the Lions in total yardage. |
a I suppose you could say it was a classic lions performance just at the end game too. 
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166183
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Posted: September 18 2016 at 14:28 |
JJLehto wrote:
Win is a win, but holy sh*t that was uuuuugly. That win goes pretty much entirely to the defense and Victor Cruz, who thus far is playing like he didn't miss nearly 2 years due to horrible injury. Offense is showing some nasty potential...can really move the ball and put up killer points, just gotta cut out these dumb ass mistakes.
Technically great game from Eli 78% complete 368 yards, no picks. Since I had to listen on radio I can't tell if he really had many errors, but sounded like there were a few dropped balls that were not his doing, and the fumbles and mistakes pretty much removed him from ever reaching the red zone. I know one fumble was his doing. Still, pretty excited about a 2-0 start and dare I say....I have some actual hope for the team
Cowboys eek out a win, my boy Greg Olsen is having a beast game for Carolina, Baltimore comes back against Cleveland (what??)
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Yeah...drops were a concern for sure. Beckham dropped two TDs for one...Cruz had a big drop, though certainly redeemed himself with the last catch. Perhaps a little too conservative with the playcalls but with a tough/ugly game for a win is surely a win.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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