American Politics the 2016 edition

timothy leary wrote: I never found you funny no matter what joke you tell.

far more humorous to see some grasp what is NOT inferred.

big difference between in the idiocy of not voting... that is a personal choice. I could never do that but we have the right to decide for ourselves what to do. Never once said.. never will say.. that not voting makes one an idiot. I will say that makes you as much of the problem as the problem you may have in the first place. This isn't a beauty pageant.  Both have warts and smell bad... the trick is to to find the one that won't stink up your place and give you a bad case of the drips and crabs..

However, and this I'll stand by, if one thinks that Hillary and Trump are one and the same and are not a bible thumping racist bigot. Then yes...  I won't infer nothing. I think one is an idiot.

case in point... you may not like Hillaries ties to Wall Street...  but one is far more vested to be worried about who is commander in chief and has control over our nuclear arsenal.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/i-think-he-could-come-apart-222949



Goddamnit... think ... this is important. You may not agree with Hillary.. but she is stable. Misguided? Perhaps.. but not a lunatic...








Edited by micky - May 13 2016 at 19:23

Childish

I would never presume to tell some one who to vote for or whether they should vote at all. I also do not call folks idiots for their beliefs or political persuasions.

^^ Some really well observed perceptions there, Michael; politics is among your true mediums.

ClemofNazareth wrote: micky wrote: Democrats think he wouldn't have a chance.  If Hillary was able to knock him side wards... make him appear self severing and petty.. not to mention un-presidential and ..gasp.. not up to the position...even when she has hardly paying him any attention.... what do you think will happen the full weight of all the heavy artillery and the kennel of attack dogs the right can muster..  by the time they are done with him all that would be left is piile of rumpled clothes. It will bounce right off of Hillary.. they've been trying to destroy her since Bill was in White House. The American public has heard it all already. .and Hillary can hit back just as hard as she gets. What would Bernie do.. whine about how unfair it is to have his character assassinated. He has no idea what he'd be getting into.. I suppose his supporter don't either.. running for office in Vermont is nothing like he'd see for a national office. It would be cutthroat, nasty, and a pack of lies and innuendo. See Swift Boaters.. Based on what we have seen.. in very genteel Democratic primaries.. he'd be a major failure at the national level IMO. We've seen this movie too many times...it isn't latent racism or political self service as those quotes were above.. it is history ... old white male northeastern liberals do NOT win elections. The message is great Bob.. the problem is the messenger..  if Warren had run. She would be the nominee.. not Hillary.  She'll have her turn..and the whole of the party behind her..  she'll be waiting in the wings when Hillary's 8 years are done. Fair statements, and like Bernie admits there is no denying his battle is uphill and daunting. as it should be.  I do think we are in an age of transition but not there yet and think Hillary is the last call for political moderation. The GOP went through their last call with Bush Classic. Hillary is probably ours. The battle lines are and have been drawn As I noted and showed in that graph. What was once the middle are drifting to the edges. Right where Bernie is. A bit ahead of his time. I think Bernie was never destined to be the nominee.. much less President. What I think, and sincerely hope, it is was he and his campaign that laid the groundwork for some real change.  If Sanders supporters are smart.. they vote.. and vote for Hillary. Yeah I can their problems with her. However I do agree with most pundits.. and common sense.. what are they going to do. Vote for f**king Trump and yes.. much as some may not like to hear it.. a non vote for Hillary as almost as much a vote for Trump as actually swallowing ones intellect and brain power and actually voting for the fool.. Warren could still play a role as a running mate, and given the fractious nature of the Republican machine at the moment, this could be the year where a third-party candidate could emerge.  I think Warren is smart enough to recognize her future power, influence, and future path to the Presidency is not by being Hillary's 2nd but leader, if in name or not, of the Senate when (if) the Democrats retake it. As VP she becomes as invisible as Biden. As the real power in the Senate she has.. real power. She declines IMO even if she is offered which few think Hillary will.  No one wants to be out shown by their VP candidate. It isn't like this is Trump's election to lose, it is hers. She doesn't need to appeal to Bernie supporters. She routs Trump by appealing to moderates not the newly emerging power in the Democratic Party, but still minority voice, which is the rapidly expanding liberal wing. They may not like Hillary but they should like Trump a lot less and again.. if they are actually thinking.. know that through a Hillary victory their darling and idol, Warren, gains a great deal of power for which she will bank when she runs after Hillary has cleared out. Neither Trump nor Sanders has any loyalty to their recently adopted parties. reason #1 perhaps why Sanders is not exactly beloved by rank and file Democrats. He has been a democrat all of a year. Don't expect the establishment to warm to political carpetbaggers/opportunists.... see Trump. !Given Warren would never make the kinds of ideological compromises she'd need to make to run on Hillary's ticket as well, along with her silent but palpable lack of support for Clinton and her very vocal distaste for Trump I can definitely see the possibility of an independent Sanders/Warren ticket in the general election. never Bob.. At least with Warren. She knows.. has to know for we all know it. She waits 4 years or even 8 and she walks to the nomination with the full support of the Democratic party. She blows it completely if she went on a losing 3rd party bid. Sanders has shown a disturbing tendancy to get wrapped up in the 'hero worship' of the young masses. Staying in where he should have quit and worked quietly behind the scenes to push his agenda. Warren is likely far smarter .and damn sure more politically savy than Bernie. She waits for her turn.. knowing she'll have the whole Party behind her when she does. I'm not as confident as you that Clinton would be able to muster a two-pronged character assault on both Trump and Sanders on a long, expensive and intense general election cycle, and Sanders would have the economic moral high ground with Warren in his camp.  Granted this is a far-fetched scenario, but I don't think anyone denies this is an election year that is changing the face of what is normal so who knows really Perhaps Bernie does go 3rd party.. but again.. it would be without Warren. Bernies ego trip would be not only political suicide for Warren but again.. they wouldn't win.  I do hold out some hope that left leaning voters retain some common sense. You may not like Hillary...but as the lovely and smart Terri so untactfully noted... anyone who thinks Hillary is as bad as Trump would be as President.. is a f**kING IDIOT.  I would hope that a Sanders 3rd party candidacy would fall flat for most of his supporter knowing a vote for him.. is a vote for Trump. And like the only real chance Trump has is for the Democratic Party to split itself. I'd still like to think that Sanders's supporter knows Hillary may not do what they want... but know Trump will do a lot they will not like. Big difference... I'd be tempted to call it a subtle difference but it is NOT.  All sounds to me Bob like a bunch of spoiled children, lead by Bernie, threatening to burn the whole house down because they didn't get their way. The battleground states will be as interesting this year as they were in Bush's second campaign.  In most of the ones that have open primaries (Nevada, Iowa, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Ohio and Virginia) Sanders did as well or better than Trump in both percentage and number of votes, and in a couple he even beat Clinton.  Sanders with Warren as a third-party candidate can make a more cogent, mature and substantive case for economic reform as well addressing wealth inequality and political corruption than either Clinton or Trump will be able to do, which in that situation would mean the electoral count could come down to two or three key states where Trump has failed to win swing voters and Sanders has held his own against Clinton thus far.  Wisconsin and Ohio will be key this year regardless, and if a strong independent candidate emerges those two states along with possibly North Carolina could well decide the election. oh that is a subject I'm really looking foward to discussing as the campaign unfolds. I thiink Trumps unpopularity makes generally safe GOP states battleground. If Trump has to fight to hold onto N.C., Georgia and Arizona.. he has lost... the electoral math already favors the Democrats. .they have win to win Democratic leaning states.. they can't lose any GOP leaning and still have a chance to win in November. Cheers Bob!!!

Edited by micky - May 13 2016 at 18:30

I had a conversation the other day at the bar with a guy who was all over the economic aspect of this election.

I told him the hell with that stuff...  regardless of the party.. it won't change. Really change at least. He was like.. we need manufacturing jobs back... I laughed and told him to wake up.. your party killed that in the search of greater corporate profits...they are not coming back. Makes for a great campaign sound bite..  and good luck offering any plan to close the door after the cows have left... and taken themselves to Mexico or S.E Asia.

Where the election is important.. and where who is in power does matter are the notions of softer.. yet IMO more meaningul issues. The direction of this country.. social issues.. and yes.. determining the High Court.

will we have justices that think you do not have the right to marry or sleep with who you want..

or will we have justices that believe in.. well.. what this country is supposed to be about.  Freedom and equality and opporunity for all...  not some f**king quasi religious fundamentalist state.. run by white male christians.. for white male christians..

bah...

^ not exactly a cast of open minded non partisan prognosticators there Bob It seems a lot of denial to forget just how hated the bush years were.. and the latent power of the Democratic party when they are energized. Either for a candidate or against one...

Democrats think he wouldn't have a chance.  If Hillary was able to knock him side wards... make him appear self severing and petty.. not to mention un-presidential and ..gasp.. not up to the position...even when she has hardly paying him any attention.... what do you think will happen the full weight of all the heavy artillery and the kennel of attack dogs the right can muster..  by the time they are done with him all that would be left is piile of rumpled clothes. It will bounce right off of Hillary.. they've been trying to destroy her since Bill was in White House. The American public has heard it all already. .and Hillary can hit back just as hard as she gets. What would Bernie do.. whine about how unfair it is to have his character assassinated. He has no idea what he'd be getting into.. I suppose his supporter don't either.. running for office in Vermont is nothing like he'd see for a national office. It would be cutthroat, nasty, and a pack of lies and innuendo. See Swift Boaters..

Based on what we have seen.. in very genteel Democratic primaries.. he'd be a major failure at the national level IMO.

We've seen this movie too many times...it isn't latent racism or political self service as those quotes were above.. it is history ... old white male northeastern liberals do NOT win elections.

The message is great Bob.. the problem is the messenger..  if Warren had run. She would be the nominee.. not Hillary.  She'll have her turn..and the whole of the party behind her..  she'll be waiting in the wings when Hillary's 8 years are done.


Edited by micky - May 13 2016 at 13:30

Don't hate me but Bernie, though I agree with his message, couldn't win a general election under any circumstance. 

rushfan4 wrote: Another conservative "Christian" who doesn't behave like a "Christian"  http://www.wect.com/story/31888456/tow-truck-owner-bernie-sanders

Nice...  I'll have to add that to my playbook.. on my next service call the next that has a vehicle I see with a Trump sticker in the drive way. Though the next will be the first.. god I love living in deeply blue areas... I'll knock on the door.. say hello... and then goodbye...and tell him I refuse to do work for him since they are propagating division hatred, bigotry, and all around stupidity...