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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2016 at 21:54
Originally posted by AZF AZF wrote:

I've noticed it's been ignored as "a series of disappointing instrumentals with one damp squib song at the end" but I've been really appreciating "The Endless River" today.
Forgot how much I was obsessed with it the last couple of years. I don't feel cheated by the four long pieces chopped down into smaller sections.
A couple of years on and I still don't feel I've finished listening to it.
Or does that album jar and ruin your appreciation of Pink Floyd?


I also really love "The Endless River"... and I find it difficult for any real Pink Floyd fan to feel cheated about the album, since it was explained from the very beginning what the album was all about (the ambbient thing, mostly instrumental, material left unused from Division Bell)... actually, I was rather worried that it wouldn't turn out as good, but in the end Gilmour knew what he was doing (mostly). I do love most of the music on the album, and it's a really beautiful experience to listen to it whole without anything else to do (not easy to find the time to do that, though).

However, "Louder than Words" was indeed one of the disappointing aspects of the album. Not that it is a bad track, I actually do enjoy it... however, Pink Floyd had up until then left us with one of their very best songs as a swansong (High Hopes), and I would have liked them to be able to at least get close to it's greatness... however, now their swansong is a rather mediocre song that doesn't have much to be remembered about. The other most disapointing part of the album is the sax on Anisina... it's really not up to the stanard that Pink Floyd and Dick Parry have us used to... and I do wish Gilmour had been able to get Dick Parry play on it, for his absence is indeed noted, and I'm sure he would have been able to do much better on this song... his touch might be what the song needed to be good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 08 2016 at 22:15
^ Anisina - very good song, ruined by the M.O.R. sax solo, which I'm sure Gilmour could've done it much more tastefully himself.
I love TER, very respectable and enjoyable. Up there with the great 70's album for me. It was EXACTLY what I hoped for, especially in tribute to dear Wright.
I do, however, think that Guy Pratt should've been the only bassist on the album (Gilmour does a great job, no doubt).

Edited by Tom Ozric - April 08 2016 at 22:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Affek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 11:07
"High Hopes" as one of the best Pink Floyd songs? You've gotta be kidding me. Literally everything (maybe except "Wearing the Inside Out") on The Division Bell can't stand up to the stuff with Roger Waters. "Two Suns in a Sunset" was much better as a farewell song.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 11:44
Originally posted by Affek Affek wrote:

"High Hopes" as one of the best Pink Floyd songs? You've gotta be kidding me. Literally everything (maybe except "Wearing the Inside Out") on The Division Bell can't stand up to the stuff with Roger Waters. "Two Suns in a Sunset" was much better as a farewell song.
I strongly disagree. Have you heard the version of Live in Gdansk? It's the song that closes the circle, the last tribute to Syd Barrett and possibly the first song on which Dave GIlmour has paid some attention to the lyrics.

Two Suns in The Sunset is a great song, anyway. If only it had Wright on it. 
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Affek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 12:10
I've always felt like Gilmour-driven PF was a league lower than Waters-driven, not to mention Barrett era, as it's something completely different. Of course I've heard "Live in Gdańsk" version - I'm Polish and it was almost impossible to hear it a few years ago. The song had really heavy radio airplay. Though I didn't really feel like the song was something special - it is, in fact, just a... song. Dave just can't fight his nostalgia when it comes to "Fat Old Sun" and its opening bell section. He puts it almost everywhere and I'm really sick of it, and that's just one reason I don't like "High Hopes".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tillerman88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 12:38
Originally posted by Affek Affek wrote:

I've always felt like Gilmour-driven PF was a league lower than Waters-driven, not to mention Barrett era, as it's something completely different. .
 
Interesting really ,I mean the whole bunch of different tastes I see just the few times I stumble upon these progressive forums. For me it's just the opposite direction of thoughts - I couldn't ever stand Water's lyrics, and much less his solo efforts. As for Barrett's era, perhaps I can save just a few tracks that I would care for.  Anyways, this endless issue is indeed the internet forums' beauty, isn't it?
 
 
 


Edited by Tillerman88 - April 09 2016 at 12:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Affek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 13:49
Yeah, that's all that Internet is about. Endless arguing about the very same things. I think that Pink Floyd underwent drastic change in its sound after Roger had left. It became more, how should I put it, artifical, and that's something I don't like, not to mention my opinion on Gilmour himself - it's him who takes all the glory, while Roger is the one who did almost everything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 14:10
Originally posted by Affek Affek wrote:

Yeah, that's all that Internet is about. Endless arguing about the very same things. I think that Pink Floyd underwent drastic change in its sound after Roger had left. It became more, how should I put it, artifical, and that's something I don't like, not to mention my opinion on Gilmour himself - it's him who takes all the glory, while Roger is the one who did almost everything.


Gilmour takes all the glory? Really?
Roger did almost anything? Not exactly true. He was the driving force in the band for a while but in the process marginalized Wright and fell out with Gilmour.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Affek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 14:18
Yeah, Gilmour takes all the glory. I understand what Roger must've felt - he just wanted recognition. Dave got Ivor Novello Lifetime Contribution Award for... excellence in music writing, which is a laugh (during Waters' time in PF, he wrote TWO songs by himself), Q Award and is a Commander of British Empire, while Roger has literally nothing. And you say that Gilmour didn't get all the glory?

Edited by Affek - April 09 2016 at 14:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 14:20
Floyd wouldn't be Floyd without ANY member - Mason's rather perfunctory style of drumming suited the band PERFECTLY. Wright's talents and choice of equipment defined the Floyd sound, Waters was competent on the bass and a clever lyricist, and Gilmour is a guitar God, with a magic touch that belonged to Floyd. What an OUTSTANDING band.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Affek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 14:22
@Tom, I agree with you. Pink Floyd without Roger Waters is like The Who without Keith Moon. You think that it's rather all right, but you can ceritanly feel that something is missing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 14:29
I love Floyd with Waters at the helm, I love Floyd with Gilmour at the helm, but when they were an 'equal unit' (early 70's) - then there was a pure, magical chemistry happening.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 14:51
Originally posted by Affek Affek wrote:

Yeah, Gilmour takes all the glory. I understand what Roger must've felt - he just wanted recognition. Dave got Ivor Novello Lifetime Contribution Award for... excellence in music writing, which is a laugh (during Waters' time in PF, he wrote TWO songs by himself), Q Award and is a Commander of British Empire, while Roger has literally nothing. And you say that Gilmour didn't get all the glory?


and those awards mean what? Glory?
I think that the fact that they still sell albums in the 21st century is all the glory they need.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Affek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 14:55
What I meant was that David got all the recognition. He was the face of Pink Floyd and many people regarded him as the leader of the band. I remember that somewhere (I think it was his biography) Roger stated that he got no recognition at all. No one cared for him and that caused his frustration, so he purposefully ignored other members of the band. And it's still that way - most of the people think that PF was all about David, while it's not true. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 15:34
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Floyd wouldn't be Floyd without ANY member - Mason's rather perfunctory style of drumming suited the band PERFECTLY. Wright's talents and choice of equipment defined the Floyd sound, Waters was competent on the bass and a clever lyricist, and Gilmour is a guitar God, with a magic touch that belonged to Floyd. What an OUTSTANDING band.



Good post Tom. 
Roger also deserves a nod for being driven, for being the one to really push to get things done.  David has admitted that he and the others were not exactly motivated in the late 70s. 
And I think Syd deserves a big nod for being the launching pad.  Would the Floyd have been noticed and given opportunities had Piper never happened?  Maybe, not sure though. 


Edited by Finnforest - April 09 2016 at 15:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 22:40
I always felt that from Dark side to The Wall (or The Final Cut, actually), Waters was considered the driving force and the face of the band. In some ways I do agree, but in others not so much. He sure was the one that came up with the concepts, which seems to be the first step (at least with this band) to create the masterpieces they did. However, I wouldn't say he was the most important factor to create those wonderful albums... at least not with Dark Side, Wish you were Here, and Animals (which I would consider my very favourite period from the band)... with this albums, it was still a matter of the whole band creating the great albums. About songs written by Gilmour... well, actually he didn't write many songs...
On Dark Side, I think there was none written by Gilmour... though he does have credits with the rest of the band at least on Time. Besides that one Dark Side is mostly Waters and Wright, and I'm not sure who's contributions I consider more important.
On Wish you Were Here... well, Shine On is credited to the whole band, so I woulnd't know who did the most important part of the songwriting. I obviously would guess that the guitar segments were written by Gilmour, and the keyboard ones by Wright... and perhaps the vocal ones by Waters? I think on the albums it actually sais who wrote which parts. Gilmour's song on this album is the title track, perhaps one of the more famous ones by the band and surely an important contribution on the album, though on a site like this one it may not be among the favourite ones.
On Animals, often considered already almost a Waters driven album, Dogs is actually mostly Gilmour (I understand the music is by Gilmour, and the lyrics, as always, by Waters, so the song is credited to both)... and since that song takes almost half the album, I would consider his contribution to that album really important (and since that's my favourite song from the album, that makes the contribution all the more important for me).
And even on The Wall... Waters wrote almost the whole album... but perhaps the most beloved song from it, Comfortably Numb (at least for the more serious Floyd fans, more casual ones might prefer Another Birck part 2), was mostly a Gilmour thing.
So, perhaps Gilmour didn't write so much for the band, but what he wrote was usually highlits on the albums... and that's considering songs written mostly by him only (which as it turns, are not so many), if we consider which bits of the more collaborative songs were written by him perhaps we would find even more highlights.
The thing, in the end, is that the band was at it's very best when they all worked together to make the magic happen, and none of them on their own could have achieved the same level as they did together.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Finnforest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2016 at 23:06
^Good post
I definitely feel David is every bit as important to me as a listener.....I enjoy him so much.  

I just recall Roger saying with a hint of contempt that by the late 70s he was the guy doing the heavy lifting in the studio....while the others were content to play golf and race their cars much of the time...or whatever.  David has acknowledged that there is at least some truth to that.  I think that in any band, the person who is really willing to "crack the whip" and finish the long, meticulous, unglamorous work...deserves some praise for that.  Instead they painted him as a dictator.....but oh well....part of the band's charm I suppose.  Personalities.  LOL

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheLionOfPrague Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2016 at 13:41
Originally posted by Affek Affek wrote:

Yeah, that's all that Internet is about. Endless arguing about the very same things. I think that Pink Floyd underwent drastic change in its sound after Roger had left. It became more, how should I put it, artifical, and that's something I don't like, not to mention my opinion on Gilmour himself - it's him who takes all the glory, while Roger is the one who did almost everything.

Hahahaha.
I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2016 at 15:57
A point worthy of mention here : now it's just a thought - none of us, fans shall we say, were in the band, we don't know any of them personally, but we still insist Roger this and David that........ Could it be that Rog was a control freak with a massive ego ?? Could David and the others have been lazy (or stoned) ?? Maybe Roger's attitude was 'my way or the highway' ?? I'm not paying out on Roger - he's the reason I picked up the bass, he is quite righteous to me, but I admire Gilmour and his vision of Floyd equally.
It's obvious that Roger was the motivator, he had the grand concepts, the work already mapped out in his mind. He clearly didn't let the others interfere (or contribute much) with that. Doesn't mean Gilmour is the 'weak link'.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr wu23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2016 at 17:08
^ I'm no expert on Floyd and while I like them I'm not what one would call a huge fan...but I have read some pretty nasty things by Waters in his interviews and he did 'mistreat' some of the band members toward the end. He might have been the one taking care of business and coming up with the 'concepts' but
it seems to me if anyone is to blame for their personality clashes and the demise of the original lineup  it's probably him.
 
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