"Freedom" thread or something

but Teo was dead on.  Regardless of who is elected gridlock will prevail. Both parties are beholden to big money..

what matters.. what drives my vote.. what should drive others is again what I mentioned earlier. It is a culture war.

We have won on several issues... gay marriage.. check what the general opinions on that were 10 years ago.. we changed heart and minds... and barely (5-4) got it through the Supreme Court.

I agree with T. Ideals are great...  pragmatism is reality.  We can't get all we want in our candidates... I don't have to want to have a beer with Hillary or even like her...but at least with any Democratic nominee we know we will get someone that will fight for minority groups. Not to try to revisit our ugly past as the Republican party sure appears to want to do.


as a side note.. even with the win. Not a good week for Sanders. Horrible, almost Rubioesque, interview which he came off as ..well... all talk and no practical thoughts. Real solutions.

 and likely shot any chance of a VP nod (would have been a smart move for Hillary) with the idiot attack on Hillary as being 'unfit' due to ties to Wall Street. 

I always have considered myself a pragmatist. Sanders is the better candidate and thus will support him in the primary. General election time, we shall see. As I've said my vote is not locked, I will pragmatically decide based on how things are looking. Like I said, I am lucky to live in reliably blue NJ, if things are heading that way again I shall likely vote Stein, if not I wont. Seems pragmatic to me

Edited by JJLehto - April 07 2016 at 18:09

micky wrote:  and likely shot any chance of a VP nod (would have been a smart move for Hillary) with the idiot attack on Hillary as being 'unfit' due to ties to Wall Street.

Edited by JJLehto - April 07 2016 at 18:32

I like the guy, really like his ideas, but I do have doubts if he is. Nothing to do with agreeing with him or not.  He doesn't strike me as better in that regard than the fools on the right.

He might have thought that unfair... but to toss the same back at Hillary is childish as well as laughable. No one in the field is more qualified or knows exactly what it means to lead at a national level, and internationally, than her.  Like or her not.. saying she is unqualified is ..well.  doesn't say much for the brain power of the person saying it.

JJLehto wrote: Well, I read the interview. He was asked how he'd break em up, said could either pass legislation or use the authority in Dodd Frank.  Made sense to me.  Check my original post. I added a quote from the Sanders campaign where he elaborates, and notes no media source seemed to mention this part...  It was a NY paper and the media coverage has been, obviously, very pro Clinton. Of course it was spun that way.  Well, that's a shame but of course I can't change your opinion. He has been a champion of progressive policies, even when it was not politically acceptable, has gotten a lot done in Congress usually behind the scenes and unsexily, and he's worked with lots of people, including Clinton back in 93 when she praised his personal healthcare idea, Republicans, libertarians. He was on the committee that helped write Obamacare, though he personally wanted far more. He's got a good record and has achieved much, is far more than a likeable guy but oh well.  Clinton will be better than the GOP, which shall try to send us to 1928 and atomic bomb our economy.  We will instead slowly drift into worse and worse economic conditions, slowly choking away the country instead of nuking us. Maybe next recession people will turn more strongly to his ideas

oh its not a question of changing my mind.  I'd support him in a heartbeat if he was the nominee.

especially this year. This election is important... with the spectre of either Cruz or Trump as President.  I supported who is best suited to beat them. Idealism is great.. reality is everything. We need to win this election.

Look at it this way.. true or not.. this flap.  If he can't handle Hillary and her spin... what do you think will happen when the full might of the (could care less about facts) GOP attack dogs decended upon him.

Regardless of what the national polls say now...  he would be portrayed and likely come across as yet another N.E. liberal which is almost fatal for winning national elections.

This is going to be a BRUTAL campaign this fall.  Hillary has more balls than any of them and she will need them, she is tough enough and experienced enough to win a general election.  I don't feel Sanders is.

what matters is winning in November so what progress we have made the last 8 years.. is not rolled back within weeks.


Edited by micky - April 07 2016 at 18:53

A Person wrote: JJLehto wrote: A Person wrote: JJLehto wrote: As for the other stuff, eh that's getting a bit out there for me, though I see truth to it in shades. As I looked more into stuff after our last crisis I was a little disturbed how govs/banking/business/wealthy all do seem to have a bit of a global cabal thing going on, but I dont really cave into the world planning type stuff. I just think tis wealthy peddling influence and self betterment No doubt there is agreement on things such as neo liberal policies and etc It doesn't seem conspiratorial at all to assume people with the power (in terms of money/influence) bend the system to suit their needs. It seems like a natural thing to me, actually. That is not what's out there for me, that indeed is totally sensible.  I mean the whole intl banking cabal Rothschild type stuff, and people getting together to plot the world's course and etc Yeah that kind of thing is on par with flat earth/faked moon landing/9/11 truther nutcase stuff as far as i'm concerned.

I am very sad indeed that Sanders - whom I admire - has descended to the Trumpian-level of politics.  For heaven's sake - "She started it"? I thought his brand was to claim he was above all that kind of nonsense.

I do think that realization, even if subliminal, is behind the age divide in who democrats support.  Yes Bernie appeals to the youth, why has he not gained traction amoung older voters.  I think in our hearts we know or suspect he is not a winning candidate and being realists, not idealists. Life beats that out of you.  We know what matters is winning in November so even if Hillary does not inspire like Bernie does... she can win whereas many think Bernie will not.

I didn't say Clinton wasn't inspiring. I admire her immensely and find her strength very inspiring. 

I was obviously referred though to the way young voters are more inspired by Sanders than they are by Clinton.  I've been there.  I remember what is like to really want a candidate. To be inspired by one that appeals to one's youthly idealism. I fell under Chuck Robb's sway... now that was one impressive candidate. I've have gone through brick walls for him and worked like a mule for his campaign.

exactly! 

I don't get it either. Oh I do from the right.. she and Bill have been public enemy #1 for them for the last 20+ years. I don't get it from those on the left. Is she is not liberal enough for them?  Sorry man... reality is this country leans right of center.  God help the Democratic party if does what the GOP has done and forgets that ideology purity is nice and all.. but it takes centrists to win elections.