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Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7319
Topic: The making of David Bowie's "Heroes" Posted: February 21 2016 at 21:23
This is a remarkable video that explains, in detail, how the song "Heroes" was constructed by Bowie, Eno and Fripp!!
For those of us who have recorded or spent time in the studio, I think you'll find it very interesting! This was a fascinating collision of musical genius, and producer Visconti gives a very intimate inside view of how a masterpiece is constructed.
I have watched this a couple of weeks ago. Very indsightful. Frankly I was amazed at the vision of those involved. Between Eno's suitcase synth, Fripp's feedback and putting the various bits of collage together to create this classic. The concentration, dedication and insight in this composition via this means and with so many personalities giving what they do is quite something. I wonder if given the disparate ingredients whether I or anyone could make anything of it all. But Visconti did. Maybe it was Bowie's over-arching vision; it is his song - but really it's a colossal audio jigsaw puzzle and they really pulled it all together.
If you're into composition, production, studio work or the making of this song generally or specifically it is well worth your time.
Joined: March 23 2013
Location: Minnesota
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Points: 2037
Posted: February 22 2016 at 06:50
I've watched this several times. It makes me realize how little difference there is between what Fripp Eno and Bowie did and what much lesser names such as I and my mates have done in our makeshift studios. Except for the fact they are heroes. The way Visconti describes the process (process makes it sound so clinical) he could be describing any number of songs we have created. Not to suggest that anything we ever did approached this level, rather Visconti's recounting brings it down to ours.
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
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Points: 7319
Posted: February 22 2016 at 14:03
stegor wrote:
I've watched this several times. It makes me realize how little difference there is between what Fripp Eno and Bowie did and what much lesser names such as I and my mates have done in our makeshift studios. Except for the fact they are heroes. The way Visconti describes the process (process makes it sound so clinical) he could be describing any number of songs we have created. Not to suggest that anything we ever did approached this level, rather Visconti's recounting brings it down to ours.
Thank you! I had the EXACT same feeling about songs I've recorded in makeshift studios! We would layer processed sounds onto each other, amplifying children's keyboards that were miked through guitar effects such as phase shifter, mike sheet metal and old tools for percussive effects, and ended up with a very big sound! One of these days I'll have to digitize this old music...some of it is pretty cool!
It sounds like the approach each of us used was the same - record the instrument as the musician heard it, rather than recording a clean track & processing the track later on! With primitive tape recorders in the mid to late 1970s, this was the standard method of recording.
This Youtube clip is required listening for anyone curious about Eno's approach to song construction!
Joined: January 04 2007
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Points: 17774
Posted: February 23 2016 at 09:01
uduwudu wrote:
...
If you're into composition, production, studio work or the making of this song generally or specifically it is well worth your time.
More importantly, is the ability to accept, learn, and work, with other people's suggestions ... in the other board I frequent, folks are so tuned to their DAW's and their metronomic lifestyle, that if one of those comments came from me, or those folks, they would think that we're a bunch of arseholies that do not know music at all and this is the part that is scary ... hearing those folks think that a Schulze is not music, and neither is Eno. It's all music ... and the combination of it, can be very magical ... if we allow it to fruition ...
But, due to the popular/commercial side of things, a lot of these get buried and dumped ... we're not strong enough inside to stand up and deliver ... what we feel! This is the clue ... and then allow that feel to develop itself ... those three folks had no issues working with each other whatsoever. I also, sincerely, doubt that David Bowie had any other influence for the use of electric guitar in his work ... than Robert Fripp!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Posted: February 23 2016 at 14:21
Well.....I like the track well enough but listening to that deconstruction of the recording technique kind of ruined the magic and mystery of the music for me.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Points: 17774
Posted: February 24 2016 at 09:48
dr wu23 wrote:
Well.....I like the track well enough but listening to that deconstruction of the recording technique kind of ruined the magic and mystery of the music for me.
Which is the part that you have to remember ... sometimes, the individual parts are not as good as they would be if they had a counter-something, or opposite to work of it. This is one of the "secrets" in directing on the stage ... you are putting together vastly different people for a common purpose, and in the end, it is to have a very satisfying relationship to the audience, and sometimes this is not something, in DETAIL, that appeals to a lot of folks, specially when you have defined what it meant for you already ... thus, a break down, tends to break up your own view some ... but you should give yourself some space ... and know that you have an artistic mind that can create these things, and thinking that anyone else's is better than what you have and can do is nutz ... you're as creative as them ... but you kinda "don't know" that, or have found a proper application for that ability.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Well.....I like the track well enough but listening to that deconstruction of the recording technique kind of ruined the magic and mystery of the music for me.
I know what you mean. But consider the intelligence of those involved to take these disparate elements and meld them into Heroes.
I've listened to many out takes and constructions; I'm in many ways kind of used to the bits that make up a piece. But yes, I would recommend for a general listener that they may find the process unnerving to the point of disappointing. It can take the romance out of music for many.
Now I do have a copy of the multi tracks for Owner of A Lonely Heart. I wonder what I could do with that... ;) Really ruin things...
Joined: January 04 2007
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Points: 17774
Posted: February 26 2016 at 14:52
uduwudu wrote:
...
I've listened to many out takes and constructions; I'm in many ways kind of used to the bits that make up a piece. But yes, I would recommend for a general listener that they may find the process unnerving to the point of disappointing. It can take the romance out of music for many. ...
And any other art ... if Picasso tells you that he was a child, and the carnage he saw out of his window is exactly what "Guernica" is all about, your appreciation of Guernica drops ... because of the reality behind it, and how we dislike ugliness (not that we should like it), instead of punishing it. In essence, seeing things like that is the same as thinking/seeing ... I don't know how to do it, or say it, and on top of it I'm afraid ... and a lot of that is getting over this "fear" and stop being a "fan" ... you have, first of all, to be YOU, not anybody else ... that you appreciate someone else is not what writing this piece of music is about ... what you want to do with the next note or sound, is!
Massive difference! And it defines a "master" and "artist' from another top ten and nothing musician. Or as I like to say ... a musician plays notes ... an artist plays music and feelings!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
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Points: 7319
Posted: February 26 2016 at 14:53
uduwudu wrote:
dr wu23 wrote:
Well.....I like the track well enough but listening to that deconstruction of the recording technique kind of ruined the magic and mystery of the music for me.
I know what you mean. But consider the intelligence of those involved to take these disparate elements and meld them into Heroes.
I've listened to many out takes and constructions; I'm in many ways kind of used to the bits that make up a piece. But yes, I would recommend for a general listener that they may find the process unnerving to the point of disappointing. It can take the romance out of music for many.
Now I do have a copy of the multi tracks for Owner of A Lonely Heart. I wonder what I could do with that... ;) Really ruin things...
At the beginning of my personal musical journey (in college), I spent time at Sunday Studios in Champaign, Illinois USA where local bands including Starcastle would record. I was aghast at how badly individual tracks sounded, and how magical it was when a song was finished and the mix complete!
The old saw about not watching sausages nor laws being made applies to songs being recorded in the studio!
The late acoustic guitarist Michael Hedges once told me how horrible Peter Gabriel's voice sounded in the studio before they added effects such as delay! This "Heroes" video showed how crappy some of the sounds were, but when layered together, make a lovely tapestry of sound, much of it accidental. A cool video, please enjoy!
Joined: March 23 2013
Location: Minnesota
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Points: 2037
Posted: February 26 2016 at 21:28
Rednight wrote:
Outside of Fripp's haunting guitar work on that song, it is probably the weakest selection on the album. Even the video was lackluster.
I always thought 'Heroes' was one of the weaker tracks on the album too,
but now that I've peeked under the hood I can appreciate it on a
different level. I guess I'm one who likes to see how the sausage is made.
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17774
Posted: February 27 2016 at 11:02
stegor wrote:
Rednight wrote:
Outside of Fripp's haunting guitar work on that song, it is probably the weakest selection on the album. Even the video was lackluster.
I always thought 'Heroes' was one of the weaker tracks on the album too,
but now that I've peeked under the hood I can appreciate it on a
different level. I guess I'm one who likes to see how the sausage is made.
I see it somewhat like that ... the artistic "process" is ALWAYS a wonderful journey and a trip worth remembering and visiting and enjoying ... but some folks in this "commercial" world believe that it is giving away the "secret" of their work ... which is IMPOSSIBLE. There is no secret. All there is, is something called "individuality" that these people understand, and are not afraid of and to work with, and sometimes you find matches and things that come together ... and work, just as many times that they don't work.
Folks like ENO and even Robert Fripp, have the ability to "let go" their knowledge, and simply just play, and they will not know where it will take them, but it is worth finding out. We, as a commercial society, do NOT give these folks credit for that valuation, because it is a serious threat to our internal constitution with its illusion of organization, definition and ideas.
The same thing, in this process, would be quite valuable and found in many artistic scenes ... and lucky for all of us, this was quite open in the late 60's and early 70's that we got to see some people that did this ... but then, folks do not realize how much of this was already in place in theater, film and literature in the 60's ... because if you did, what happened in that special, is not only "natural", but just another expression of that "freedom", that today's commercial music design will not allow you to understand, appreciate, find and buy!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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