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TradeMark0 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2015 at 04:07
IMO, they're better than a lot of the prog giants, but a better question is why isn't Soft Machine considered one of the prog giants.

Edited by TradeMark0 - January 17 2015 at 12:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2015 at 04:30
Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

(...)
Hardly any of my J/R/F albums feature vocals and that's fine with me.
 
The most of jazz-rock / fusion is instrumental stuff, but there are also some fantastic jazz-rock / fusion tunes that featured vocals, in various stlyles of the sub-genre; for example Chick Corea's Dear Alice, Return To Forever's What Games Shall We Play Today, Allan Holdsworth's Road Games, Bill Brufford's Adios a la Pasada (Goodbye to the Past), Nick Mason's I'm A Mineralist,  Steely Dan's Aja etc, etc.
 
 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2015 at 06:44
Originally posted by TradeMark0 TradeMark0 wrote:

... , but a better is why isn't Soft Machine considered one of the prog giants.
I don't understand that part.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2015 at 06:51
Originally posted by Skullhead Skullhead wrote:

I find the music relaxes me.

...Like a ten fingers deep tissue massage !! After their first recordings players would listen to their own music before coming onstage so they feel relaxed in order to deliver their lines....Why not after all !!

This is my suggestion for a rephrased debate: "Is massage music predominated by frantic intensity closer to jazz fusion, or prog rock "...


Edited by jayem - January 17 2015 at 06:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2015 at 07:29
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

(...)
Hardly any of my J/R/F albums feature vocals and that's fine with me.
 
The most of jazz-rock / fusion is instrumental stuff, but there are also some fantastic jazz-rock / fusion tunes that featured vocals, in various stlyles of the sub-genre; for example Chick Corea's Dear Alice, Return To Forever's What Games Shall We Play Today, Allan Holdsworth's Road Games, Bill Brufford's Adios a la Pasada (Goodbye to the Past), Nick Mason's I'm A Mineralist,  Steely Dan's Aja etc, etc.
 
 
 
 


Camel's great work to me is "The Snow Goose".  All instrumental, and considered Prog and not fusion.

A lot of KC stuff from the same era was instrumental just like Mahavishnu.  KC was also doing lots of improv sounding stuff across structure odd metering.  To me, the complexity of the odd metering that MHV put together is even a bit more sophisticated that KC, and certainly rocks harder in general.  If the jazz moniker is aimed at too much jazz style showboating.. then didn't ELP also fit that description?  Lot's of ELP showboating.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2015 at 10:01
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by TeleStrat TeleStrat wrote:

(...)
Hardly any of my J/R/F albums feature vocals and that's fine with me.
 
The most of jazz-rock / fusion is instrumental stuff, but there are also some fantastic jazz-rock / fusion tunes that featured vocals, in various stlyles of the sub-genre; for example Chick Corea's Dear Alice, Return To Forever's What Games Shall We Play Today, Allan Holdsworth's Road Games, Bill Brufford's Adios a la Pasada (Goodbye to the Past), Nick Mason's I'm A Mineralist,  Steely Dan's Aja etc, etc.
 
 
 
You are correct. Some of my JRF albums feature vocals even if only on one or two songs. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2015 at 10:16
Originally posted by Lear'sFool Lear'sFool wrote:

^ Eh, prog's had better.

Like a lot of fusion albums. Check out Birds of Fire again.
 
You're no progger if you're dissin this track.
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2015 at 11:39
^ And Angus is no true Scotsman because he's dissin' Scotch. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2015 at 12:20
Skullhead mentioned The Snow Goose which is a great album.
There is a Camel poll going on now and "Goose" is in third place out of fourteen albums.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2015 at 12:49
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by TradeMark0 TradeMark0 wrote:

... , but a better is why isn't Soft Machine considered one of the prog giants.
I don't understand that part.

sorry, it was a mistype.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2015 at 15:00
It's hard for me sometimes to listen to them, mostly due to their volcanic intensity, but I do like them under certain moods. Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2015 at 15:41
I don't give a rat's ass where they rank around here.  For me Apocalypse is one of my top ten prog albums and I hate ranking albums,
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2015 at 20:52
When I think of Jazz fusion, I think of some of the Miles albums from the 70's or Stan Getz or Maynard F. doing rockish jazz stuff.  Some of it is really good.  Mahavishu seems so much more rock or prog rock than that stuff. 

Fripp was very fast and frenetic at times, but both KC and Mahavishu had deep structure under all the intense playing.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2015 at 10:04
Much like early Genesis I am just now discovering Mahavishnu and it blows me away. Birds of Fire is just amazing!

Edited by Jeffro - December 03 2015 at 10:05
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2015 at 18:16

I have fond memories when I first bought Mahavishnu's "Inner Mounting Flame" back in '73 - Along with that album I also bought my first copy of Genesis "Selling England By The Pound." The latter in the Import section- Two masterpieces each with its own virtuoso guitarist! John McLaughlin & Steve Hackett-
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2015 at 19:27
I like them but I prefer Weather Report and Dixie Dregs..
I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 03 2015 at 22:21
MO were great....period. No fusion band around then or later played with the balls out intensity they did.
Superb musicians....everyone a virtuoso and that was part of the problem....too many egos clashing in the band. Apparently Goodman and Laird would go at each other all the time.
Their first 2 are the best but even the later ones had fine playing though they never achieved that level of intensity.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2015 at 08:14
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

MO were great....period. No fusion band around then or later played with the balls out intensity they did.
Superb musicians....everyone a virtuoso and that was part of the problem....too many egos clashing in the band. Apparently Goodman and Laird would go at each other all the time.
Their first 2 are the best but even the later ones had fine playing though they never achieved that level of intensity.


- True. It's inevitable that such an incredible band would "out-ego" each other and maybe even outplayed themselves on the first 2 albums-But they definitely made their mark and statement with jazz or fusion, although more in a rock context. Later on down the road makes me think of Return To Forever's fusion masterpiece "Romantic Warrior" -



- Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats -
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2015 at 15:38
Originally posted by Rando Rando wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

MO were great....period. No fusion band around then or later played with the balls out intensity they did.
Superb musicians....everyone a virtuoso and that was part of the problem....too many egos clashing in the band. Apparently Goodman and Laird would go at each other all the time.
Their first 2 are the best but even the later ones had fine playing though they never achieved that level of intensity.


- True. It's inevitable that such an incredible band would "out-ego" each other and maybe even outplayed themselves on the first 2 albums-But they definitely made their mark and statement with jazz or fusion, although more in a rock context. Later on down the road makes me think of Return To Forever's fusion masterpiece "Romantic Warrior" -




Romantic Warrior is a great album.....though I always liked Hymn of The 7th Galaxy better. Prolly 'cause I used to get 'stoned' to that one before I heard Warrior.
Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2015 at 08:55
Mahavishnu is exhausting.....the sheer speed and power of the music is impressive, but sitting thru even one side of the first album is a full body experience.....you need a chaser like the first Weather Report album to soothe your frazzled nerves after the all out sonic assault of MO.  I've been a McLaughlin fan all my life and have a shelf full of his music, but the first two MO albums are the least played among them.....you really have to be in the mood and that mood doesn't pop up very often.  I much prefer Extrapolation, Devotion and My Goal's Beyond from that same time frame.....more melodic, more precise in technique, more soulful, more listenable.  Mahavishnu will always have a place in my collection, but their records will spend less time on my turntable.

Edited by Intruder - December 09 2015 at 09:32
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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