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Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: March 25 2015 at 12:28
The Dark Elf wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
You did notunderstand me. I'm not sayingthatArmageddon not generally belong to 70s hardrock as same as e.g. Uriah Heep, Black Sabbath or BOC and that the internet sites who say so are wrong; they aren't wrong, especially not wrong in the time of multiplied tags.I just want to point outthat 1) the style of that singlealbum by Armageddon is not of a kind of hardrock which was generally playedin1975 and that the sound of the albumis nicely suited towhatthe records dealers atthat time named "proto-prog" to firm that dinstictive sound of late 60s / early 70s at their selling lists ( they did not created a new genre nor they wanted to do anything like that) 2) I mentioned Armageddon's album as an evidence that the "proto-prog" sound was still exist until mid 70s even in UK.
See, that's the difference between us. I understood what you were saying. I just don't accept it. Neither do I accept the tag "proto-prog" that a few record resellers decided to scribble with black magic marker on their flea market bins. That was not a defining moment or the end-all, be-all for the definition of proto-prog.
(...)
Of course that those ancient records dealers' lists aren't (un)Holly Bible, but PA definition of Proto Prog with The Who on that "proto" list also is not (un)Holly Bible nor the writer of PA Proto-Prog definition is (un)infallible Pope, lol.
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Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: March 25 2015 at 12:31
Svetonio wrote:
Of course that those ancient records dealers' lists aren't (un)Holly Bible, but PA definition of Proto Prog with The Who on that "proto" list also is not (un)Holly Bible nor the writer of PA Proto-Prog definition is (un)infallible Pope, lol.
Simply put: if we didn't have Proto Prog section with that definition then The Who would not be listed in this site at all.
And since Iván's definition has been copied and reprinted on several other sites, his canonisation is imminent.
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13097
Posted: March 25 2015 at 12:49
Svetonio wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
You did notunderstand me. I'm not sayingthatArmageddon not generally belong to 70s hardrock as same as e.g. Uriah Heep, Black Sabbath or BOC and that the internet sites who say so are wrong; they aren't wrong, especially not wrong in the time of multiplied tags.I just want to point outthat 1) the style of that singlealbum by Armageddon is not of a kind of hardrock which was generally playedin1975 and that the sound of the albumis nicely suited towhatthe records dealers atthat time named "proto-prog" to firm that dinstictive sound of late 60s / early 70s at their selling lists ( they did not created a new genre nor they wanted to do anything like that) 2) I mentioned Armageddon's album as an evidence that the "proto-prog" sound was still exist until mid 70s even in UK.
See, that's the difference between us. I understood what you were saying. I just don't accept it. Neither do I accept the tag "proto-prog" that a few record resellers decided to scribble with black magic marker on their flea market bins. That was not a defining moment or the end-all, be-all for the definition of proto-prog.
(...)
Of course that those ancient records dealers' lists aren't (un)Holly Bible, but PA definition of Proto Prog with The Who on that "proto" list also is not (un)Holly Bible nor the writer of PA Proto-Prog definition is (un)infallible Pope, lol.
The point I was making, Moses, is that nothing is set in stone. I used the words "redefine" and "reassess" because that is what has been done and what continues to happen as part of the historical record.
Nothing is infallible, as you inferred, yet you still hold on to some archaic (and really silly) definition like Yahweh himself slapped you upside the head with the commandment:
THOU SHALT NOT PUT OTHER DEFINTIONS OF PROTO-PROG BEFORE THEE!
But as a reasonable music listener and as a musician, I find the PA definition of "proto-prog" far more reasonable than the short-sighted and fundamentally inaccurate definition by some 70s flea-market resellers. As a person degreed in English and history, linguistically the prefix "proto" is supported far more reasonably and in historical context by PA than your flea-market resellers.
As a reasonable person, I cannot hold to a definition that is no longer valid or does not make sense to me, particularly when a far more reasonable and sensible definition is available.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: March 25 2015 at 12:56
Kati wrote:
found another so-called proto song, certainly not helping me in liking what I still cannot tell what it is, except thinking so far all songs the notes are sharp, lack warmth, lacking bass guitar tunes etc, all very blunt and not nice clear in my opinion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKroSJti39I
That style was called Freakbeat, a genre what I mentioned earlier in this thread.
By the way, Rick Davies is great as always....
And slightly off the topic - Kati, do you think that The Steve Miller Band would be in Prog Archives' Proto Prog section - as per PA' definition of *proto-prog*, of course - due to their first two albums from 1968?
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20616
Posted: March 25 2015 at 15:32
Svetonio wrote:
Kati wrote:
found another so-called proto song, certainly not helping me in liking what I still cannot tell what it is, except thinking so far all songs the notes are sharp, lack warmth, lacking bass guitar tunes etc, all very blunt and not nice clear in my opinion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKroSJti39I
That style was called Freakbeat, a genre what I mentioned earlier in this thread.
By the way, Rick Davies is great as always....
And slightly off the topic - Kati, do you think that The Steve Miller Band would be in Prog Archives' Proto Prog section - as per PA' definition of *proto-prog*, of course - due to their first two albums from 1968?
Svetonio, you have to follow the protocols and post Steve Miller in the Psych Lounge first. After approximately 50 years it will be considered for inclusion in the proto-prog category.
Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213
Posted: March 25 2015 at 19:03
SteveG wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Kati wrote:
found another so-called proto song, certainly not helping me in liking what I still cannot tell what it is, except thinking so far all songs the notes are sharp, lack warmth, lacking bass guitar tunes etc, all very blunt and not nice clear in my opinion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKroSJti39I
That style was called Freakbeat, a genre what I mentioned earlier in this thread.
By the way, Rick Davies is great as always....
And slightly off the topic - Kati, do you think that The Steve Miller Band would be in Prog Archives' Proto Prog section - as per PA' definition of *proto-prog*, of course - due to their first two albums from 1968?
Svetonio, you have to follow the protocols and post Steve Miller in the Psych Lounge first. After approximately 50 years it will be considered for inclusion in the proto-prog category.
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Posted: March 26 2015 at 02:06
Svetonio wrote:
Kati wrote:
found another so-called proto song, certainly not helping me in liking what I still cannot tell what it is, except thinking so far all songs the notes are sharp, lack warmth, lacking bass guitar tunes etc, all very blunt and not nice clear in my opinion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKroSJti39I
That style was called Freakbeat, a genre what I mentioned earlier in this thread.
By the way, Rick Davies is great as always....
And slightly off the topic - Kati, do you think that The Steve Miller Band would be in Prog Archives' Proto Prog section - as per PA' definition of *proto-prog*, of course - due to their first two albums from 1968?
Aww my sweet Sventonio, this time I think I am the last person here to answer your question. I am clueless here still as to proto actually stands for
I however I do think Steve Miller Band - Fly Like An Eagle (1976) certainly has prog elements i.e. sitar and B3 organ, plus the moozik has a groovy sexy vibe Steve Miller Band - Fly Like An Eagle (1976) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdB9lTUyshM hugs
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Posted: March 26 2015 at 02:12
SteveG wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
Kati wrote:
found another so-called proto song, certainly not helping me in liking what I still cannot tell what it is, except thinking so far all songs the notes are sharp, lack warmth, lacking bass guitar tunes etc, all very blunt and not nice clear in my opinion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKroSJti39I
That style was called Freakbeat, a genre what I mentioned earlier in this thread.
By the way, Rick Davies is great as always....
And slightly off the topic - Kati, do you think that The Steve Miller Band would be in Prog Archives' Proto Prog section - as per PA' definition of *proto-prog*, of course - due to their first two albums from 1968?
Svetonio, you have to follow the protocols and post Steve Miller in the Psych Lounge first. After approximately 50 years it will be considered for inclusion in the proto-prog category.
SteveG,
Now you just confused me more hahahaha ... I was told by Dean that proto was before prog, the music term was invented (this finally started to make sense to me) thus prior to prog, bands can be proto thereafter none can be considered that hugs xxxx
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Posted: March 26 2015 at 02:21
The Dark Elf wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
You did notunderstand me. I'm not sayingthatArmageddon not generally belong to 70s hardrock as same as e.g. Uriah Heep, Black Sabbath or BOC and that the internet sites who say so are wrong; they aren't wrong, especially not wrong in the time of multiplied tags.I just want to point outthat 1) the style of that singlealbum by Armageddon is not of a kind of hardrock which was generally playedin1975 and that the sound of the albumis nicely suited towhatthe records dealers atthat time named "proto-prog" to firm that dinstictive sound of late 60s / early 70s at their selling lists ( they did not created a new genre nor they wanted to do anything like that) 2) I mentioned Armageddon's album as an evidence that the "proto-prog" sound was still exist until mid 70s even in UK.
See, that's the difference between us. I understood what you were saying. I just don't accept it. Neither do I accept the tag "proto-prog" that a few record resellers decided to scribble with black magic marker on their flea market bins. That was not a defining moment or the end-all, be-all for the definition of proto-prog.
(...)
Of course that those ancient records dealers' lists aren't (un)Holly Bible, but PA definition of Proto Prog with The Who on that "proto" list also is not (un)Holly Bible nor the writer of PA Proto-Prog definition is (un)infallible Pope, lol.
The point I was making, Moses, is that nothing is set in stone. I used the words "redefine" and "reassess" because that is what has been done and what continues to happen as part of the historical record.
Nothing is infallible, as you inferred, yet you still hold on to some archaic (and really silly) definition like Yahweh himself slapped you upside the head with the commandment:
THOU SHALT NOT PUT OTHER DEFINTIONS OF PROTO-PROG BEFORE THEE!
But as a reasonable music listener and as a musician, I find the PA definition of "proto-prog" far more reasonable than the short-sighted and fundamentally inaccurate definition by some 70s flea-market resellers. As a person degreed in English and history, linguistically the prefix "proto" is supported far more reasonably and in historical context by PA than your flea-market resellers.
As a reasonable person, I cannot hold to a definition that is no longer valid or does not make sense to me, particularly when a far more reasonable and sensible definition is available.
The Dark Elf wow wow wow WOW~!!!!!!!!!!! Most tracks you posted on your website front page are my favorites! I promise, I have those tracks, just to prove that they are my favs you can check here my playlist too https://www.youtube.com/user/SoniaKatiMota/playlists too yay whooheeehiiiiiiii you are wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love your taste in moozik jajajaja yep ahum yes si sim oui big hug
Aww also leave pls Sventonio be as he is so nice more to you!!!
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Posted: March 26 2015 at 02:25
Nirvana is an American band, thus how can we classify them as British Proto prog? They are not prog tho' nor punk, they were quite good and they were classified as Grunge I think.
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Posted: March 26 2015 at 02:45
Kati wrote:
Nirvana is an American band, thus how can we classify them as British Proto prog? They are not prog tho' nor punk, they were quite good and they were classified as Grunge I think.
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: March 26 2015 at 02:50
Kati wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Svetonio, you have to follow the protocols and post Steve Miller in the Psych Lounge first. After approximately 50 years it will be considered for inclusion in the proto-prog category.
SteveG,
Now you just confused me more hahahaha ... I was told by Dean that proto was before prog, the music term was invented (this finally started to make sense to me) thus prior to prog, bands can be proto thereafter none can be considered that hugs xxxx
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Posted: March 26 2015 at 02:55
Dean wrote:
Kati wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Svetonio, you have to follow the protocols and post Steve Miller in the Psych Lounge first. After approximately 50 years it will be considered for inclusion in the proto-prog category.
SteveG,
Now you just confused me more hahahaha ... I was told by Dean that proto was before prog, the music term was invented (this finally started to make sense to me) thus prior to prog, bands can be proto thereafter none can be considered that hugs xxxx
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Posted: March 26 2015 at 02:57
Dean wrote:
Kati wrote:
Nirvana is an American band, thus how can we classify them as British Proto prog? They are not prog tho' nor punk, they were quite good and they were classified as Grunge I think.
Wrong Nirvana.
hahaha this just proves how much of a ninny I am I never heard of them, ha! Going to listen right now, thank you, Dean
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Posted: March 26 2015 at 03:25
Dean wrote:
Kati wrote:
Nirvana is an American band, thus how can we classify them as British Proto prog? They are not prog tho' nor punk, they were quite good and they were classified as Grunge I think.
Wrong Nirvana.
hoh I like them! This I really like! They in my mind weirdly sound like Paul McCartney on vocals and King Crimson somehow
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Posted: March 25 2015 at 12:28
Steve Miller Band - Fly Like An Eagle (1976) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdB9lTUyshM hugs 
hugs xxxx
yay whooheeehiiiiiiii you are wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love your taste in moozik jajajaja yep ahum yes si sim oui 
more 
I never heard of them, ha! Going to listen right now, thank you, Dean 
British Proto-Prog
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The Dark Elf wrote: