Mahavishnu Orchestra

Lear'sFool wrote: ^ That violin is more jazz then you think. Compare Jerry Goodman's violin with that of Jean-Luc Ponty - the violinist on Apocalypse and Visions, in fact, but see also Enigmatic Ocean - and contrast with that of David Cross.

Exactly

petewhit wrote: Mahavishnu is fusion not prog rock.  In my opinion The Inner Mounting Flame and Birds of Fire were the best and it went down from there.  Some bands are destined for a short lifespan, especially a band with the intensity of the Mahavishnu Orchestra.

Fusion?  Fusion of what? Jazz and rock? Where is the Jazz? Please explain.  The drums are not jazz, the bass is not jazz, the guitar is not jazz, keyboards?  Maybe slightly.  Violin? I don't hear anything along the lines of traditional jazz. 

Mahavishnu sounds as prog rock as anything I can imagine. 

Isn't prog rock a fusion of things also?  Rock and Classical, Jazz, Folk, Psychedelic, New Age, Electronica.

If there is any genre of music that should be labeled fusion it is prog rock.

I love apocalypse. Call it prog or fusion. It was an extremely brave album. It fails in certain sections, but in others parts it reaches a 'fusion' of instrumentation that has rarely been accomplished elsewhere. Some really haunting melodies. 

petewhit wrote: Some bands are destined for a short lifespan, especially a band with the intensity of the Mahavishnu Orchestra.

Well....I don't think they lasted long enough (consistent..) in a trad sense to become one of the prog greats and it's has been pointed out they were fusion more than prog, but the first 2 albums are a must for any  collector of fusion/prog . There are tracks on those that are as good as anything the so-called prog greats did.

There is an honesty in the feel of the recordings of Mahavishnu that I don't hear from Weather Report or Return to Forever, Brand X etc.  The typical jazz fusion stuff started trying to fuse that loose improv style with Steely Dan production values.  It all sounds a bit sterile and over produced.  I suspect that was one of the reasons Punk Rock took off.  People got tired of perfectly produced albums that not only came across as pretentious but for all intent and purpose were pretentious.  A lot of the prog went down that wormhole to, and that continues to this day.

I would love to hear a quality new prog band just get back to basics and lay down their recording live with some of that passion and feel that Mahavishnu did so well.  There is something about that era and the limitations that were just part of that era kept things sounding more honest and natural.  I like the early Pink Floyd stuff for that reason also.

Lear'sFool wrote: (...) Mainly because of McLaughlin, they ended up favouring rock elements over jazz elements, in spite of their backgrounds. Must have something to do with McLaughlin honing his skills with bands like The Graham Bond Organisation (....)

Of course; he was there with Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker 

I like that Mahavishnu records all sounded and felt live.  Yes, there are occasional overdubs, but there is no doubt that most of it went down live.  I don't feel that energy of live interplay in much modern prog for instance.  DT sounds like a great studio offering all synced up nicely with click tracks and endless digital editing.  Today's standard for high production sounds completely sterilized when compared to a listen to Mahavishnu.  They were a great live band that delivered.  Mahavishu doesn't come across to me as showboating.  I think what they were doing was creating a high energy interplay for the listener, that worked as a texture more than a "look at me" vibe.  It sounds musical.  There are gorgeous passages of slower music then contrasting with fast then frenetic.  They were going for full spectrum. 

I don't the the jazz thing either.  I don't hear anything that sounds like traditional jazz music.  The band is driven by Cobham who has jazz chops for speed, but plays with rock energy completely.

I personally prefer the later version with Ponty and Narada Walden on drum kit.  It's much more refined and anyone here who hasn't checked them out yet should listen to "Visions of the Emerald Beyond" first, then Apocalypse, and if you like those albums, then go back to Birds of Fire and Inner Mounting Flame.

Check out "Devotion"If you like the first two, (Birds, and Inner Mounting) there is another great album called "My Goals Beyond"where McLaughlin did two solo albums that set the groundwork sound for Mahavishnu.

If you get into "Visions of the Emerald Beyond" then make sure to check out Jeff Beck's "Wired" where he basically took Jan Hammer and Narada Walden from Mahavishu for his own.  It's a similar style but with Jeff Beck on guitar instead of John McLaughlin.  Beck followed with his classic "Blow by Blow".  That was the pinnacle of his career in my opinion.


Edited by Skullhead - January 11 2015 at 01:34

Lear'sFool wrote: jayem wrote: Lear'sFool wrote: ^ Prog can go either way. Crimson and the Giant's hardly relaxed, just to start... Eh, eh...Crimson has the storms and rushes that made them so enjoyable, but you also have chillouts like after the LTIA I solo, or they have Exiles, and Trio. We'll Let You Know takes its time. So much more "relaxed" times than in Mahavishnu. Giant feels much less "speedy" and on the nerve, esp when sung falsetto. Mahavishnu...Very long busy tracks, and in some ways less contrasting moods and tracks than KC or Giant... Birds of Fire had "Thousand Island Park" and "Hope", just to start. I have no idea where you're coming from.

Edited by jayem - January 11 2015 at 00:15

Rednight wrote: I'd say Birds of Fire is prog.