Progressive Rock and the Middle Class

It is difficult, well, almost impossible to pigeonhole a genre of music into a particular social class.  The beauty of music is that it transcends class and status and can be enjoyed by anyone and everyone. 

I'm sure there are prog musicians who came from a working class background and likewise, I'm sure not all punk musicians were brought up on deprived council estates (didn't joe strummer go to private school?).

It is a mildly interesting point, what and where a particular genre of music was born from, but it certainly has little or no relevance today. 

I like that you can attend gigs and be standing amongst a broad range of individuals with differing ethnicity, sexuality, gender, social background, academic background and you all come together because of the band you are watching.  No one is better than the other person, because you were brought together through your love of music.

 

Edited by spectral

I would have to disagree, at least based on my personal experiences.  I grew up in completely poverty, and the discovery of my deceased father's Kansas collection on vinyl drew me in.  I'm still pretty much in poverty (less than $10,000/year income), but I'm all about the prog...

...when I was still in school, it was the middle-class kids who had no taste in music, while the poor people like me seemed to be more discerning, possibly because it was such a rare occurrance to be able to purchase a new album, and we wanted what we could get the most enjoyment out of. 

*shrugs*


Edited by Man Overboard

Man Overboard wrote: I would have to disagree, at least based on my personal experiences.  I grew up in completely poverty, and the discovery of my deceased father's Kansas collection on vinyl drew me in.  I'm still pretty much in poverty (less than $10,000/year income), but I'm all about the prog... ...when I was still in school, it was the middle-class kids who had no taste in music, while the poor people like me seemed to be more discerning, possibly because it was such a rare occurrance to be able to purchase a new album, and we wanted what we could get the most enjoyment out of.  *shrugs*

 

That is not to say there are no exceptions.  There are plenty but I think it also holds true that the majority of progressive fans in the 70's (not speaking of today nor was Macon's book) were from these types of households.  My mother was not rich but still would have to say we were better than the poverty line.  I think all the kids I saw at progressive band concerts were certainly Waspish in nature.  

Man Overboard wrote: Garion81 wrote:   That is not to say there are no exceptions.  There are plenty but I think it also holds true that the majority of progressive fans in the 70's (not speaking of today nor was Macon's book) were from these types of households.  My mother was not rich but still would have to say we were better than the poverty line.  I think all the kids I saw at progressive band concerts were certainly Waspish in nature.   I will also agree with that.  When I went to the Flower Kings fanday, I felt horribly out of place...  so many people were so well-dressed, buying oodles and oodles of stuff from the merch tables, discussing all sorts of things that people can only do when they're rich...  I had my best clothes on, but I practically looked like a begger in comparison, with my cut-off jeans, my worn T-shirt, my year-old shoes...  I'm glad I parked far away, an 87 oldsmobile would've stuck out like a sore thumb.  Still, it was the best experience of my life, the people treated me no differently from each other, and we all had an incredible time.

 

As we all would have at Calprog had you been there.   Glad you had a great day.  Wish you could get to Protokaw in NY in July. 

 

 

Man Overboard wrote: What's the time/date/price/location?  I'll try to start saving up for it.

 

July 5th, BB Kings, $20.

 

 

http://www.bbkingblues.com/schedule/index.shtml

 

 

You can't pigeon-hole all fans or musicians of a particular genre into a social class, but you can draw conclusions about central tendencies. Macan, I think, argues that the level of formal training found in (and required to pull off) most progressive rock in the 70s pointed to middle class upbringing. Sort of like sports that require lots of expensive equipment or training (figure skating) tend to be concentrated among people who are better off financially.

But at the same time I wouldn't overstate the point. A middle class background certainly would not be a requirement for getting into progressive music, either as a musician or a fan.

I concur with Blacksword. ^

Macan from the distance of 30 years and being in California, has picked up his Engish music and sociology second and often third hand. 

 

There has always been some form of polarisation in the UK, associated with class, wealth  and some time by default, musical preferences. From the working class teddy boys of the 50's (rock'n'roll) and the  middle class beatniks (who preferred their jazz). The mods and rockers of the mid 60's which Quadraphenia  in part deals with - but that was less about class, than fashion and musical choice (The Who, Kinks and Small Faces for the mods, while the rockers hung onto Elvis - the term 'face' meaning somebody who was attired smartly, in fashion - these three bands  being the flag carriers - check out the bands' cloths up to 1968 and note even with the associated racism promoting the R'n'B coming out of Chicago). The skinheads and hippies at the end of the 60's, with lowerclass/ middle class differences - and ironically the skinheads preferring the gentle music of early reggae, and the gentle hippy freaks preferring the comparative violence of Hendrix. Many progressive musicians would have had middle class parents (but obvious Jon Anderson came from working class Lancashire) - hence some truth in Macan's thesis about keyboard players coming from a background of  Church of England organ playing. But the likes of Genesis went to Charthouse, a rather posh private school (which we British ironically call a Public School - but so did Jim Morrison and David Crosby in the USA). Bruford and Hillage did a rather middle class English thing and managed to get themselves into English universities before dropping out - while Rick Wackman went to the one of the best music schools (approx at degree level) in London. Certainly progressive music was bought by the middle class - big audiences for it at the time in British universities. Punk appeared in the UK as a musical/political force, coming from those who believed themselves disenfranchised (but Police were middle class, and as was the Clash's Joe Strummer),  the working class - by 1975 the not-working class of youth -  was dressed (possibly cynically) by Malcolm McLaren and Vivian Westwood as a counter culture statement to prog - Johnnie Rotten with his anti-Pink Floyd teeshirt....

 

This is a interesting discussion for which  a large number of sociology books about the 60's have been published, since Macan published Rocking The Classics -which now needs a rather vigorous rewrite to reflect those times more accurately.

Edited by Dick Heath

spectral wrote: I'm sure there are prog musicians who came from a working class background and likewise, I'm sure not all punk musicians were brought up on deprived council estates (didn't joe strummer go to private school?).

Punk has left the realms of the lower class - it's now been adopted by the upper & middle classes trying to look socialist and/or lower class. No idea why. The lower classes listen to trance & nothing but!

Dick Heath wrote: Macan from the distance of 30 years and being in California, has picked up his Engish music and sociology second and often third hand.    There has always been some form of polarisation in the UK, associated with class, wealth  and some time by default, musical preferences. From the working class teddy boys of the 50's (rock'n'roll) and the  middle class beatniks (who preferred their jazz). The mods and rockers of the mid 60's which Quadraphenia  in part deals with - but that was less about class, than fashion and musical choice (The Who, Kinks and Small Faces for the mods, while the rockers hung onto Elvis - the term 'face' meaning somebody who was attired smartly, in fashion - these three bands  being the flag carriers - check out the bands' cloths up to 1968 and note even with the associated racism promoting the R'n'B coming out of Chicago). The skinheads and hippies at the end of the 60's, with lowerclass/ middle class differences - and ironically the skinheads preferring the gentle music of early reggae, and the gentle hippy freaks preferring the comparative violence of Hendrix. Many progressive musicians would have had middle class parents (but obvious Jon Anderson came from working class Lancashire) - hence some truth in Macan's thesis about keyboard players coming from a background of  Church of England organ playing. But the likes of Genesis went to Charthouse, a rather posh private school (which we British ironically call a Public School - but so did Jim Morrison and David Crosby in the USA). Bruford and Hillage did a rather middle class English thing and managed to get themselves into English universities before dropping out - while Rick Wackman went to the one of the best music schools (approx at degree level) in London. Certainly progressive music was bought by the middle class - big audiences for it at the time in British universities. Punk appeared in the UK as a musical/political force, coming from those who believed themselves disenfranchised (but Police were middle class, and as was the Clash's Joe Strummer),  the working class - by 1975 the not-working class of youth -  was dressed (possibly cynically) by Malcolm McLaren and Vivian Westwood as a counter culture statement to prog - Johnnie Rotten with his anti-Pink Floyd teeshirt....   This is a interesting discussion for which  a large number of sociology books about the 60's have been published, since Macan published Rocking The Classics -which now needs a rather vigorous rewrite to reflect those times more accurately.

Dick,
Fair enough about Macan looking from a distance in some respects. However he is a musicologist and sociologist and was passively involved as a listener in the 70's in the USA. To say it is third hand is OK but then you have to apply that to any historian who reports or comments on something that happened in a different land even if they were alive. Would you discount an English Report of what The citizens of the US were going through during WW2 because of the info he received was second or third hand?   I think his credentials are fine. I think Macan broaches a very good study of the genre, probably the best to date. If he decides to rewrite I would applaud it also.

His idea of the Church being in the background of these artists was because the Rock Concert became the Church of the 70's. The songs were hymm like and they evoked an almost spititual response. How could you not hear it in The Great Gates of Kiev, As sure as eggs is eggs, I get Up I get Down, Soon etc? The idea was not that they played organ in church but they participated in the hymms of the service. Macan quotes Gabriel talking about how the hymms they sang at Charterhouse had a profound influence on him. You could even hear that in a later work like Biko.

I think Macan did a great job.