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Davesax1965 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
 Posted: December 04 2014 at 04:08 |
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Hi Tom - I think the sad thing about Hawkwind is that it's a prime example of what happens when bands chase money and forget their roots. I suppose it becomes a sad inevitability that when band members leave their normal jobs to become full time musicians, they have to think of the mundane things like paying the rent, etc. So, rather than play music for the love of it, and create something different and of artistic worth.... they churn out that which they think will sell.
Good thing about modern music, you can release what you like, if you're of that bent. If it doesn't sell, you've not had huge overheads, plus it can all be done from a home studio. No tours, venue and lighting hire, etc. Plus, there is so much music now that the jam of fans is spread thinner on the toast of the music scene. There aren't enough fans to go around. ;-) Plus, they all think music is free, so that completely stops artist development, live music et al. The "fans" are actually killing the bands, and live music. There is no underground scene. It's unlikely that there ever was. It was just a vehicle to make money out of, to be honest. The UFO club folded because of money... by the early 1970's, even paper shopping bags had psychedelic patterns on them. There now exists a chance for a few artists to actually do what Hawkwind claimed to do and produce innovative non commercial music - done for art, experiment, and it's own sake. Except you are unlikely to find it, as every man and his dog can now release music. "Ambient" is a case in point. Good ambient music, difficult to find, is like good abstract art. Anyone can now get a Doepfer modular synth system or use VST synths and produce a babble of noise and stick an "experimental" label on it. You are very unlikely to find non commercial "underground" music anywhere nowadays. But, at least there's a lot of venues to search for it on. But as for Hawkwind...... Hawkwind is dead. Move on.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: December 04 2014 at 04:23 |
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Just a PS.
I asked a certain ex Hawkwind sax player if he'd like to play on my last album. Got the e-mail here, yes, he'd love to, he said. I'd offered him six months free royalties. Then I thought, Dave, what the hell are you doing ? This is not about money. I'd actually wanted to reach out to a larger audience by using his name, but then I thought, nope, this is totally wrong. So I did the sax bits myself. ;-)
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15921 |
Posted: December 04 2014 at 05:36 |
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Couldn't be Nik T ?? No way......
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: December 04 2014 at 10:17 |
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Bit of editing to protect the innocent
Hey Dave, nice to hear from you, I would be most honoured to play on your album, send me wavs, I can put sax and flute wherever you want for how long you want, or whatever instructions you might have, tell me the key, best wishes N** T***** |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: December 04 2014 at 10:25 |
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Now here's the funny thing. I jump on the Hawkwind Forum, where I've been a member for years (some nice people there) and put an advert up for an album - with all profits going to charity. As Hawkwind used to do. Before they sold out. Oh yes, sorry, all my profits go to charity.
Where I put adverts up for FREE downloads, the Hawkwind fans downloaded it in droves. Several hundred ones. I can do analytics via the website. When you asked them to donate a few quid, which would go to charity, the downloads generated by the Hawkwind site tailed off spectacularly. So all these right on dudes were actually just freeloading. Eventually, I put a post up and get attacked by the "this is not Hawkwind, therefore we do not like it" crowd on the site. I sit back and think, well, the proper revolutionary not-in-it-for-the-money times have gone down the plughole, haven't they ? So I just walked away from the lot of them. Thing is, if N** T***** had done the sax on the album, it would have been snaffled up by the diehard Hawkwind fans and collect-the-setters. But no. So it gets ignored. And this is the trouble with all mega-fans (or fanatics) - they lose any critical ability. "Hawkwind good, Hawkwind good, Hawkwind / Floyd / Gary Numan / Cliff Richard forever". I think not. They WERE good, they are no longer good, things change. |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15921 |
Posted: December 04 2014 at 12:26 |
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Nik is like a God to me .........
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: December 06 2014 at 03:04 |
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I've met Nik and most of the members of Hawkwind (prior to about 1982) before.
Nik runs a financial advice company in Cardiff. Whilst surfing through outer space on a surfboard, of course.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: December 06 2014 at 03:13 |
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PS Space rock sax track - me playing all instruments apart from slide guitar.
 This one, to be precise. 1956 Conn 16M "Director" tenor. ;-) Edited by Davesax1965 - December 06 2014 at 03:16 |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15921 |
Posted: December 06 2014 at 03:18 |
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I'm really loving Space Gypsy.
Xitintoday is one of the finest space-trips ever. We are the survivors, the eternal survivors, androgynous energies - travelling through time........ |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15921 |
Posted: December 06 2014 at 03:54 |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: December 06 2014 at 06:46 |
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Thanks, Tom -
Try the rest of the album. Another two tracks to it. and the main one It's such a shame about Hawkwind. The creativity and integrity of the early 1970's is what hooked me, the early experimentation.... and then it all gets ruined by cash. But then again, it's very true of so many other bands.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17531 |
Posted: December 06 2014 at 17:31 |
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Best not to! I like to suggest their material in order ... starting with "In Search of Space", and go in order. There is an incredible bunch of changes and improvement in the material that is magnificent, specially how they developed the instrumental pieces, that at first were minor, but by the time you hear "Electric Tepee", they are major ... absolutely major. I like "Space Ritual" and not just because I was there and saw it! But I like the later Hawkwind even better. I find "Astounding Sounds, Amazing Music", fantastic and the two main cuts are amazingly outstanding and totally WITH IT! "Reefer Madness" and "Steppenwolf" are not even found on many of their live albums, which ought to tell you that there was something so special here that it could not be done anywhere by anyone else. After this, I can not get off my drives, "Electric Tepee". This was the time when Hawkwind started mixing in what might be considered ambient music, and it is a total sonic attack and then some of the hardest rock and asault imaginable, and I do not think that most people can handle it, and enjoy it as such. I happen to love it, and if they do not play one cut at my funeral, all the folks there will be cursed forever! And I will blame Dean for not bringing in the incense and peppermint! I have not quite listened to the later stuff as much, mostly because it is really hard to tell what is new stuff or old stuff re-hashed, and I'm not interested in another version of "Master of the Universe". But I can blast out "Electric Tepee" like crazy ... it's also very with it ... folks don't like the ending bit ... and guess what we do here? ... we have an old fashioned rock music pow wow!!!!! That, in essence, really is what Hawkwind is about. |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15921 |
Posted: December 06 2014 at 17:43 |
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Electric Tepee - despite the over-production (kind of swampy, 80's hangover production) is the last true 5 star masterpiece - (Business Of The Future is a fraction behind for me). The new 'version' of HAWKWIND with Dibs on bass is still an improvement on the last few years. A tune such as Wraith (off Blood Of The Earth) recalls a bit of their Punky late-70's vibe. There's much controversy over Brock and his 'business', but I really am sucked into the world of the Hawks, no matter what intentions/motivations are behind it all. I guess that makes me a fan, not a purist, and there's no right or wrong with either....
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: December 07 2014 at 03:23 |
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I'd honestly start with Space Ritual, as that was what defined Hawkwind - the high water mark.
Listened to some new stuff, and it does utterly nothing for me. Simple, badly played and with fag-packet lyrics. A parody of what they used to be, nothing innovative or unusual. Still, some people like it. Some people like boy bands. Contrast and compare - Tangerine Dream.
Edited by Davesax1965 - December 07 2014 at 03:24 |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15921 |
Posted: December 07 2014 at 03:32 |
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Davesax - you can't appreciate the Tepee opener LSD ?? Man, Davey is a wicked bassist, (Lemmy is pretty darn good too....) - I always thought that the bulk of Tepee was what I've always wanted to hear from HAWKWIND.......
.......maybe that's it - what 'the masses' ( not that I consider myself part of this herd...), but what 'they' wanted to hear.....  Edited by Tom Ozric - December 07 2014 at 03:33 |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: December 07 2014 at 04:20 |
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Tom, I'm a multi-instrumentalist who's been playing 40 years. I completely appreciate, ie. understand, what Hawkwind are doing on LSD.
It's rubbish. Sorry. Try putting on the Roadhawks version of "You shouldn't do that" for some REAL Hawkwind. I'm saying the old stuff is innovative, well played and imaginative. You're saying the new stuff is good, and then quoting tracks from 20 year old albums...... Electric Teepee came out in 1994. Mind you, they'd been totally dreadful for many years before that. I think you have to be in your mid to late 50's to understand what happened to Hawkwind - to actually see the complete degeneration from an unusual, creative and revolutionary band who reflected the spirit of an era to the current ..... state of affairs. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree. :-) Edited by Davesax1965 - December 07 2014 at 04:23 |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15921 |
Posted: December 07 2014 at 05:51 |
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^ Sure - I can live with that. I am 42, I do adore In Search Of Space when it comes to early Hawks, now that's something out-of-this-world. Space Ritual is exciting, yet coming into the album around 16 years after its creation, well, I'm already thinking in 'modern' terms. I never witnessed their changes (or slide into mediocrity from your POV) as they happened. You won't change my mind, I won't change yours, no problem. No-one's trying. I'm just really surprised you don't dig most of their output....
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2839 |
Posted: December 07 2014 at 08:00 |
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Tom, if you never noticed the changes, perhaps you need a little more of a critical ear and less hero worship.
But - we all have our different tastes, so I'll leave the "modern Hawkwind fans" to it. Chacun a son gout. Edited by Davesax1965 - December 07 2014 at 08:02 |
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Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 12 2011 Location: Melb, Australia Status: Offline Points: 7951 |
Posted: December 08 2014 at 01:27 |
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"Palace Springs" and "California Brainstorm" are a good live pair, Tom! Might have to give them a new spin again later tonight. Love me some `Space Bandits' too!
Edited by Aussie-Byrd-Brother - December 08 2014 at 01:27 |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15921 |
Posted: December 08 2014 at 03:23 |
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Hell yeah !! Ms. Wishart.......
 Have Bandits & PS as LP  - Brainstorm on CD  (though I don't believe it made it to vinyl).
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Hawkwind
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Davesax1965 wrote: