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Wheelspawn View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Was Queen a sellout?
    Posted: August 29 2014 at 16:40
As most of you know, Queen's initial work was comprised of a complex, densely layered sound that was influenced by progressive rock, heavy metal and opera. With the success of their album Sheer Heart Attack, they began moving away from the complexities of their earlier albums and much of their output from the late 70's and 80's was composed of radio-friendly pop and rock. While they did return to their original sound on occasion, it was always in a very accessible manner.

Did Queen advance their sound without compromising their musical integrity or did they reject it in favor of commercial success?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2014 at 16:46
No clue...call Brian May and ask him

Seriously, the same could be said for Genesis, Yes (90125, Big Generator).
I have no problem with bands doing this, commercial success = money!! And they deserve to make a lot of money, especially back in those days only album sales and touring paid the bills.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2014 at 16:48
I think they just ran out of ideas, but you never know. Ask David Bowie.

Edited by SteveG - August 29 2014 at 16:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2014 at 16:54
I think Queen did exactly what they wanted to do.  They could be influenced by changing times and changing music scenes as other bands could, but ultimately, I don't consider that they sold out at all.  In fact, considering that Queen and bands like them make music professionally, I think saying they sold out is silly.  Bands are trying to make a living on the music they make.  So if their music doesn't sell, they are going to have to change their sound so that it does sell or they can go broke and eat grass or change professions.  But again, I think Queen did what they wanted to and they did it well enough that they sold massive amounts of records.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2014 at 17:03
Yes, they sold out. Because they should have been loyal to their yet-unborn fans who would protest later on the internet instead of trying to have a more comfortable living. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2014 at 17:17
They are a bit like Genesis, I'm not a big fan of their post-80's stuff but they managed to stay up there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2014 at 17:35
Their early albums proudly proclaimed "no synthesisers" and they used other techniques to get similar effects to what synths could do.

Then they started using synths and I think they did it because they were either getting lazy or wanting to make shortcuts to speed up the production process.

I don't listen to any album after A Night at the Opera any more, but I love the first 4.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2014 at 18:10
Of course they sold out. Just compare A Night at the Opera to Works. They made their mark as musicians and the decided to cash in. They were still good musicians, but once they tasted the sweet, sweet wine of success they never turned back. In fact, I believe they even tested their fan base to see what they could get away with. Exhibit One: Flash Gordon Official Soundtrack. Still, they put out some good songs and given their concert performances, I do not fault them, even if I lost interest in them by Jazz. And we are still feeling the loss of Freddie Mercury.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2014 at 18:46
Originally posted by Wheelspawn Wheelspawn wrote:

  ...they began moving away from the complexities of their earlier albums and much of their output from the late 70's and 80's was composed of radio-friendly pop and rock. While they did return to their original sound on occasion, it was always in a very accessible manner.

Did Queen advance their sound without compromising their musical integrity or did they reject it in favor of commercial success?
 
You didn't even have to ask this question, you already answered it. In my opinion not only Queen but the major part of the early 70's and late 60's bands had to deal with the same restrictions on their working on music, due to contractural duties imposed by the record company politics of those times.
 
Saying from my personal impressions, sadly it was easy to feel the changes also in the case of Queen for me, there are some of their early music in which I felt more dephtness than in their late 70's output and much more than in their 80's output.
 
 


Edited by Rick Robson - August 29 2014 at 19:51


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2014 at 18:46
What is musical integrity?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2014 at 19:11
I don't think they sold out so much as found a format that worked for them. Even going back to the first album, there were many tracks that were pretty straight-forward and almost comercial, they simply turned all their efforts to that sound after a few years.

I remember some quote from Freddie who described their music as `disposable', in that, it comes on the radio, you listen to it, enjoy it, then discard it and move on after it's finished. I can definitely see that in regards to the direction they eventually moved in, but writing pretty much perfect pop/rock music with cool playing and incredible vocals/melodies is nothing to look down on!

Still those early albums are the jewels though!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2014 at 21:46
They just changed with the times, and managed to stay popular. Good for them. Even their 80s stuff is still pretty complex a lot of the time, but in different ways. Finding interesting ways to use technology that's available. Some of it sounds corny now, but I could say the same for some of their early songs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2014 at 22:34
I happened to know Queen in the very beginning, when their music was quite outstanding and the band was practically unknown. Later on, as commercial success came around, they simplified their music and sound, to reach and please the mass of followers they were getting. I felt very disappointed with them, as I did with the Collins-era Genesis, and never bought any of their records.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2014 at 22:44
If you listen to their early material (The May/Taylor band Smile, or Larry Lurex) they had their beginnings as sort of a heavy pop band, they were not particularly prog, although they certainly incorporated some of that into their sound while that sound was popular.  They were never a prog band.  Bands have a right to do what they want to do, whether they do what they want due to a desire for popularity and the money that comes with it, or because that is where their musical interests take them.  I think it's wrong to accuse bands of selling out when that is what they do for a living.  We may not like the direction a particular band takes at a particular time, but the band doesn't owe it to us to make sure we are personally satisfied with their product.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2014 at 23:18

The way I hear it, Queen was original and did their own thing. They may have found mass acceptance, but they did it largely on their own terms. If they lost their way in the 80s - well, who didn't? 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2014 at 02:58
Possibly it also influenced that Freddy got seduced by the role of superstar frontman live and was not interested in playing the piano live anymore, and they never wanted to take a full-time keyboardist, so their format live was limited to a trio guitar / bass / drums (although they had support by a keyboardist and pre-recorded stuff occasionally), so they could not make very complex music which they could not play live.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2014 at 03:18
Queen from the beginning were in the direction of mainstream rockand it's a quite normal thing that they were rushing to fame and big sales.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2014 at 05:48
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

No clue...call Brian May and ask him

Seriously, the same could be said for Genesis, Yes (90125, Big Generator).
I have no problem with bands doing this, commercial success = money!! And they deserve to make a lot of money, especially back in those days only album sales and touring paid the bills.

Not to go off topic for a moment, but isn't that ALL that pays the bills as a musician? Even LESS so these days, with album sales dropping, 360 deals, and touring musicians (the minor leagues, that is) essentially living off t-shirt sales from town to town?

I can't say any of those bands "sold out", especially if their back catalog is as impressive as Queen or Yes. Those guys all deserve to make a few more bucks after years of pinching pennies.

Does anyone know how much any of those bands (Queen, Yes, Genesis) brought in annually from the beginning until now? Is there a data sheet somewhere? I'd definitely be interested to see that!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2014 at 06:38
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Possibly it also influenced that Freddy got seduced by the role of superstar frontman live and was not interested in playing the piano live anymore, and they never wanted to take a full-time keyboardist, so their format live was limited to a trio guitar / bass / drums (although they had support by a keyboardist and pre-recorded stuff occasionally), so they could not make very complex music which they could not play live.
 
I also realize that Queen often seemed to be a band kind of conceived to play live, but that trio you mentioned was also their basic studio format from the very begining, and this doesn't convince me as a reason for not making complex music which they could not play live.
 
I can name you a few examples of this contradiction, just the ones I know, but I think there might be many other examples:
 
Doing All Right (Queen) - pretty much like a "all in one" song (all the influences in just one little music);
 
My Fairy King (Queen) - Despite the fact that the keyboards never played a protagonist role, here there is a good keyboard work, especially in the final instrumental part with a nice closing;
 
Father to Son (Queen II) - Their heavy pop style still clearly present here (and much more than in the 80's), especially in the instrumenatl session of this nice song;
 
Some Day One Day (Queen II) - The psychedelic style of those times is beautifully shown in this song;
 
The March Of The Black Queen (Queen II) - The heavy rock & opera influences can be clearly felt in this indeed interesting song.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2014 at 06:40
Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

...
I remember some quote from Freddie who described their music as `disposable', in that, it comes on the radio, you listen to it, enjoy it, then discard it and move on after it's finished. I can definitely see that in regards to the direction they eventually moved in, but writing pretty much perfect pop/rock music with cool playing and incredible vocals/melodies is nothing to look down on!

Still those early albums are the jewels though!
 
From my point of view, by just putting their music on those terms he was being even more subjective than their listeners.


"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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