Why Do you prefer Prog over other music genres?

I am not saying that.  I firmly believe that the quality of the music depends on the artist and his/her/their creative vision and not on the genre. I am saying simply that there is something peculiar about both prog and its listeners in the sense that a large part of the rest of the music community seems utterly convinced it is pretentious and/or won't give it a chance.  So what is that thing that doesn't attract both hardcore rock and roll fans who want something kickass to listen to on the one hand and also classical/jazz listeners on the other?  It is that prog tries to take the left brained orientation of the latter and wed it to the rebellious, rhythmic quality of the latter.  Of course jazz too can be plenty rebellious but it is not built on driving rhythm the way rock is and that's an element prog too possesses.  We are a bunch of people who want some of the musical intrigue of academic music but don't want to completely let go of the driving, thumping quality of rock music either.  This is the niche that prog caters to.  It is the only non-academic genre that is by nature somewhat left brained.  In other genres, it is exceptional/eccentric (as applicable) artists who tend to do left brained stuff like a Beatles or a S Wonder.  In prog, it is the norm.  If it is not left brained in any regard whatsoever, we would have difficulty calling it prog.  Once you accept the idea of rock music that passes through different sections, combining both vocal passages and long instrumental interludes, with a somewhat linear rather than cyclical progression, then simplicity isn't really of essence.  Perhaps the ideas may have such clarity that they APPEAR simple to follow.  But prog as a rule cannot be compared to say Chris Rea's Road to Hell and called 'simple'.  Complicated and long winded is the appropriate word, I think.

Dayvenkirq wrote: Two questions, though: ExittheLemming wrote: This is why the lyrics to DSOTM are so brilliant i.e. some very unpalatable and complex ideas are presented in a way that practically anyone can understand irrespective of their intellect. Death, wasting time, the root of all evil? Unpalatable and complex? Where? Isn't it the absence of those qualities that actually makes the album an accessible piece of work? ... and ... ExittheLemming wrote: It's also quite telling that the music on this benchmark Prog album is predominately simple both rhythmically and harmonically. Didn't they use some slightly unconventional chords on some of the songs on DSOTM ?

The acceptance and/or realisation that there is no spiritual consolation afforded to mankind, that mental health is often exploited as a controlling mechanism by our rulers and that our labours on this earth are ultimately futile is certainly unpalatable and complex for most listeners in my book anyway. Funny thing about DSOTM for me is that the Beatles may have 'turned us on' but Floyd managed to deliver some of the worst news we'll ever hear in our lives without appearing to turn us off. How does 'some slightly unconventional chords' (and we can safely throw in the famous riff in 7/4) equate to ripping up the harmonic and metric rulebook?

I also think the left/right brain dichotomy is getting really tired now fellas. This was a resilient myth perpetrated by the work of Nobel prize winning neuropsychologist Roger W. Sperry which has now been widely disproved as 'Pop' psychology: (or Prog psychology in our case)
http://psychology.about.com/od/cognitivepsychology/a/left-brain-right-brain.htm


Edited by ExittheLemming - July 12 2014 at 03:01

rogerthat wrote: You might perhaps be taking it too literally.  There may or may not be such thing as a left or right brain but there are people who focus more on the analytical aspects of music and people who are more interested in the tones and textures.  Analytical doesn't also mean drawing geometrical diagrams, it simply means showing an interest in the way a melodic or harmonic progression develops and drawing delight in the element of surprise.  A person who is more interested in tones may get turned off by bland tones and this analytical aspect may not be enough to retain his interest.   It is often a bit of both but people do frequently plump a little or much more in favour of one over the other. If you honestly claim to have never noticed this difference in preferences, I don't have anything further to say on this discussion.

I'm clearly a 'left brain behind' person

I'm not sure I get the first part David - do you really think the following is willfully naive?

Every year is getting shorter, never seem the find the time
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over, thought I'd something more to say....

For me, most of the lyrics on DSOTM share the same bleakly existential malaise as that explored by the likes of Camus, Sartre, and Beckett. (None of whom were ever accused of peddling romantic fiction or fart gags)

^ You is one mercurial critter - thought you had said all you wanted to on this topic? (I'm glad yer back anyways)

Maybe I didn't explain myself that well. I am awfully hung over.
It's the delivery as well as the clever English take on the oracle of Delfi, which combined ends up willfully naive to these ears (I was not infering a lack of age old wisdom or general bleakness as you say;) and that in itself is enough to suggest it being intended on their behalf.

Turn off brain.

ExittheLemming wrote: ^ You is one mercurial critter - thought you had said all you wanted to on this topic? (I'm glad yer back anyways)

Dayvenkirq wrote: ExittheLemming wrote: How does 'some slightly unconventional chords' (and we can safely throw in the famous riff in 7/4) equate to ripping up the harmonic and metric rulebook? I never said anything of the kind. I was just making a point that the album is not predominately simple harmonically. (I crossed out some stuff since I was just talking about harmony.)

Why is it that Prog fans are stereotypically portrayed as cosseted anal retentive pedants who look down their noses at popular aesthetic phenomena? You've already stated that DSOTM is popular because the thematic material is:

Unpalatable and complex? Where? Isn't it the absence of those qualities that actually makes the album an accessible piece of work?

Now I like to think that both of us might agree that the album has no love songs, no terrace anthems (which ironically one Floyd album does) no paeans to the enduring immutability or nobility of the human spirit and is actually filled with songs about the vulnerability of people's psyches to mental illness (real or imagined) If people are as simplistic as you would have us believe, DSOTM would have been just another esoteric rock album by Pink Floyd to be gorged upon by their niche audience. This thing moved the masses for f*cks sake so why do you immediately think that a cadence or melody you like must be invested with innovation or prescience (otherwise said idea is not worthy of your esteem?) The musical ideas on DSOTM are predominantly conventional western song based ideas no different to those exploited by someone like the Kinks on Muswell Hillbillies. The only difference is that Waters somehow tapped into something like the collective unconscious to unimpeachable effect



Edited by ExittheLemming - July 12 2014 at 05:14

Prog appeals to my senses...  Commercial radio stuff bores me to tears........thats it.

rogerthat wrote: Dean wrote: I'm not enamoured by the left-brain/right-brain idea, either as a neurological/physiological reality (which it isn't) or as psychological/metaphorical concept (which is a crock); or by the notion that creative and analytical are unrelated and separate or that they reflect opposing personality types. Never said the CREATIVE and the ANALYTICAL are separate.