Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Damn Animals with Pink Floyd is overrated!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedDamn Animals with Pink Floyd is overrated!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910 11>
Author
Message
Kati View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 17 2014 at 23:44
Also Dogs has one of the best bass tunes which are not jazzy and this is very rare really :) btw I love Jazz

Edited by Kati - April 17 2014 at 23:45
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28085
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 01:43
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Punks were just a tool to make more money for the labels and backers, the prog musicians were getting to be costly, because they wanted to do THEIR thing, rather than sell moron music to the masses....
The great rock an roll swindle INDEED!

I'm with you on this ole bean.
Back to Top
ExittheLemming View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 02:47
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Punks were just a tool to make more money for the labels and backers, the prog musicians were getting to be costly, because they wanted to do THEIR thing, rather than sell moron music to the masses....
The great rock an roll swindle INDEED!

I'm with you on this ole bean.


Punk was a lot of things and yes sometimes moronic, but to level the charge of populism at a genre that is characterised by aggression, confrontational dissent, anarchy, left wing agit-prop, raw and visceral textures, nihilism and a proactive DIY ethos certainly must qualify as plain vanilla moronicConfused


Edited by ExittheLemming - April 18 2014 at 02:48
Back to Top
M27Barney View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 02:55
I know that the new wave / punk phenomena circa 1976 onwards was far more complex than my nutshell summation. Bottom Line mattered....and the music industry didn't like the way that (especially progressive rock monsters like Yes / Wakeman / ELP) were dictating their musical direction...thus the leverage than the punks gave them was used to it's maximum potential. Floyd , however were far more marketable and profitable so were not targeted as "Dinosaurs" like the other (better) prog rock outfits!
But anybody who prefers DSOTM to TFTO is entitled to their opinion but surely on a pop lovers site and not Progressive archives surely???
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 03:04
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Floyd , however were far more marketable and profitable so were not targeted as "Dinosaurs" like the other (better) prog rock outfits!

They were also prepared to write about Mary Whitehouse or Thatcher.  Now Genesis with Gabriel in tow might have been game for that stuff but Jon Anderson always seemed to be oblivious to the stuff that mattered to people at the time.  

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:


But anybody who prefers DSOTM to TFTO is entitled to their opinion but surely on a pop lovers site and not Progressive archives surely???

A rather illogical statement from one who has shown inclination to use the laws of physics to dissect the lyrics of Time.  If I like one album more than the other, I like it, period. How does it matter where I am stating said opinion?  I also like Red or LTIA way, way more than TFTO and I am quite sure they are at least as prog, if not more so, than TFTO.  So it has nothing to do with liking pop music.  But maybe it has a lot to do with your pretentious way of looking at music.
Back to Top
Chris S View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 03:08
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

Floyd , however were far more marketable and profitable so were not targeted as "Dinosaurs" like the other (better) prog rock outfits!

They were also prepared to write about Mary Whitehouse or Thatcher.  Now Genesis with Gabriel in tow might have been game for that stuff but Jon Anderson always seemed to be oblivious to the stuff that mattered to people at the time.  

Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:


But anybody who prefers DSOTM to TFTO is entitled to their opinion but surely on a pop lovers site and not Progressive archives surely???

A rather illogical statement from one who has shown inclination to use the laws of physics to dissect the lyrics of Time.  If I like one album more than the other, I like it, period. How does it matter where I am stating said opinion?  I also like Red or LTIA way, way more than TFTO and I am quite sure they are at least as prog, if not more so, than TFTO.  So it has nothing to do with liking pop music.  But maybe it has a lot to do with your pretentious way of looking at music.

I reckon Anderson was more nature focused but just as effective in a cosmos hippie kind of way

Don't kill the whale being one example
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Back to Top
Chris S View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 03:09
^ Let's not forget Ian Anderson either, more sociopoliticalApprove
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 03:16
That's kind of the point.  Anderson remained a hippie.  That is his personal choice and I respect that.  But Floyd were more in touch with the people and seemed to grow up, seemed to voice the same concerns that maybe their audience had.  If one doesn't like to hear that being put on a record, that's fine but to conclude that to be trying to make music that sold is naive.
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 03:31
When I read the history of the post-WWII years, watch footage from that period, I am amazed by how Floyd were able to relate to important events and trends during that period, especially the late 60s to mid 70s period, and find space for it in their music.  This is not simple newspaper headline-quoting business, it's done more subtly and also captures the underlying emotions. Dark Elf made a comment about Vietnam and there's a beautiful line in Us and Them "Black and blue, And who knows which is which and who is who."  Is "For want of the price of tea and a slice the old man died" also a reference to the effect of price rise on the common man.   Waters may not have had too many literary muscles to flex but what comes through in his lyrics is a very perceptive reading of the world, one that doesn't sound hopelessly misguided circa 2014 and instead rings true to this day.  
Back to Top
ExittheLemming View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11415
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 03:44
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

I know that the new wave / punk phenomena circa 1976 onwards was far more complex than my nutshell summation. Bottom Line mattered....and the music industry didn't like the way that (especially progressive rock monsters like Yes / Wakeman / ELP) were dictating their musical direction...thus the leverage than the punks gave them was used to it's maximum potential. Floyd , however were far more marketable and profitable so were not targeted as "Dinosaurs" like the other (better) prog rock outfits!
But anybody who prefers DSOTM to TFTO is entitled to their opinion but surely on a pop lovers site and not Progressive archives surely???


It's a common misconception (even from this website) that Punk killed Prog. This is palpable nonsense as Prog was on its knees and flagging long before Punk emerged and briefly took up position centre stage circa 1978. Bona fide Punk was never intended to be mainstream and was always outsider/outlier music. The version of Punk the masses got to see was the High Street fashion brand engineered by Malcolm McLaren, Vivienne Westwood, Anya Phillips et al (Cash from Chaos, Turning Rebellion Into Money, Passion is a Fashion were the buzzwords dahling) Prog had been steadily losing its audience for some time and the largest record companies would have viewed Punk's ability to produce and distribute its own releases via a proliferation of small independent labels with complete horror. What leverage is to be gained from the emergence of thousands of small competitors? I do accept however, that the so-called 'prog monsters' would have been about as popular with their paymasters as a fart in an elevator circa 1978, and as you say the bottom line matters, so the market ultimately decides what the masses get to see and hear. The only practical alternative to guarantee minority interest music not disappearing completely is a subsidised arts program, and that truly is the road to perdition.
(The hideous carbuncle that is 'World Music' appears to subsist entirely on this basisDead)
Back to Top
Chris S View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 04:24
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

When I read the history of the post-WWII years, watch footage from that period, I am amazed by how Floyd were able to relate to important events and trends during that period, especially the late 60s to mid 70s period, and find space for it in their music.  This is not simple newspaper headline-quoting business, it's done more subtly and also captures the underlying emotions. Dark Elf made a comment about Vietnam and there's a beautiful line in Us and Them "Black and blue, And who knows which is which and who is who."  Is "For want of the price of tea and a slice the old man died" also a reference to the effect of price rise on the common man.   Waters may not have had too many literary muscles to flex but what comes through in his lyrics is a very perceptive reading of the world, one that doesn't sound hopelessly misguided circa 2014 and instead rings true to this day.  

So true, Waters perhaps one of the most politically outspoken musician's of this time and it was found in his lyrics way before Animals as you say DSOTM and earlier. The Wall still so prevalent even in modern day tours, much to Israel's disliking of his support of Palestine over the new wall being built in Israel. Finger on the pulse as always whether you agree or disagree with him. ATD another great lyrical work along the lines of The Wall and DSOTM.
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Back to Top
M27Barney View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 05:01
Here is my Prog-gnosis (Out of five with two dp's)

Length (DSOTM 0.01) (TFTO 4.99)
Self Indulgence (DSOTM 0.01) (TFTO 4.99)
Musical Virtuosity (DSOTM 0.01) (TFTO 4.99)
Concept (DSOTM 4.00) (TFTO 4.5)
Popularity for popster (inverse) (DSOTM 0.01) (TFTO 4.99)
Popularity with music press (inverse) (DSOTM 0.01) (TFTO 4.99)
Popularity of your symphonic progster (DSOTM 1.00) (TFTO 4.99)
You do the maths !


Edited by M27Barney - April 18 2014 at 05:02
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 05:05
LOL
What?
Back to Top
M27Barney View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 07:53
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

LOL


He who spreads mirth - spreads happiness....
Peace!
Back to Top
sankalp1989 View Drop Down
Forum Groupie
Forum Groupie
Avatar

Joined: April 14 2014
Location: India
Status: Offline
Points: 42
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 08:26
yup
Back to Top
M27Barney View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 09:14
Originally posted by sankalp1989 sankalp1989 wrote:

yup

Hello, Sankalp, Indian prog input! I salute you!
What are your favourite recordings?
Please don't say "Pink Floyd , Dark Side of the Moon"
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17531
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 13:30
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

By and large, I don't consider lyrics all that important to appreciating the music.  
...
 
That's really sad.
 
For the longest time, and this helped bring up a Flora Purim, Gilly Smyth, and a Damo to a lot of music out there, and they were not the only ones, there was a VERY BIG MOVEMENT, in theater and film, that the voice, is also an "instrument".
 
I find it terribly sad, to see it all relegated to simply "lirics" in the rock'n'roll crap style, and not appreciated as a vehicle for another intstrument in the music.
 
This is the part that is the weakest in the PA when it comes to music and its history. In the end we do not care about inventive and different venues that brought out something else that was not there before.
 
But all we can think of is "lyrics" and Jane had a gun! Some "lyrics" come off stronger and more to the point and effective, and are better "acted" out, than sung, but we have lost the ability to tell the difference? Again, we have lost the ability to find and create new venues for communication, because we can only determine it by the "lyrics" that we like and understand?


Edited by moshkito - April 18 2014 at 13:38
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 13:48
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

By and large, I don't consider lyrics all that important to appreciating the music.  
...
 
That's really sad.
 
For the longest time, and this helped bring up a Flora Purim, Gilly Smyth, and a Damo to a lot of music out there, and they were not the only ones, there was a VERY BIG MOVEMENT, in theater and film, that the voice, is also an "instrument".
 
I find it terribly sad, to see it all relegated to simply "lirics" in the rock'n'roll crap style, and not appreciated as a vehicle for another intstrument in the music.
 
This is the part that is the weakest in the PA when it comes to music and its history. In the end we do not care about inventive and different venues that brought out something else that was not there before.
 
But all we can think of is "lyrics" and Jane had a gun! Some "lyrics" come off stronger and more to the point and effective, and are better "acted" out, than sung, but we have lost the ability to tell the difference? Again, we have lost the ability to find and create new venues for communication, because we can only determine it by the "lyrics" that we like and understand?

Unhappy Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, bloody moan.

Do you always have to be so condescendingly negative all the time? Is it completely impossible for you to credit the people here with a fraction of your discernment and insight?


...and who is Jane?
What?
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17531
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 13:55
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

That's kind of the point.  Anderson remained a hippie.  That is his personal choice and I respect that.  But Floyd were more in touch with the people and seemed to grow up, seemed to voice the same concerns that maybe their audience had.  If one doesn't like to hear that being put on a record, that's fine but to conclude that to be trying to make music that sold is naive.
 
I think that one of the reasons why PF ended up falling apart was that the creative convergence between them began to fall apart.
 
You can see where Roger went, and even in his solo albums, and eventually CA IRA, which almost no one here has heard or will sit in for 10 minutes, because it isn't rock'n'roll in the top ten format that you gotta have it! David felt more comfortable just playing the lead in rock songs, that became almost meaningless, and then in a grand concert in Poland, his ego was bigger than the orchestra, that you can't hear and the music was created and conducted by Zbigniew Preissner, and what David did was criminal, and cheap and just another form of punk rock for the masses! The kind we call a rip!
 
I think that Nick is too comfortable with his toys to care a whole lot. I think that Rick was more interested in the "escape" fro the conventional music and his last solo album shows it. Still "composed" but very different. I kinda think that he missed the experimental side that helped add so much "ambience" to a lot of the work that they did, some of which became defined then as just some more rock and roll music and nothing else. Separate Rick's keyboard stuff from everything else, and it is bleeping insane and crazy and way out there! In some ways, he was the "alien" in the whole thing!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17531
Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2014 at 14:03
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

By and large, I don't consider lyrics all that important to appreciating the music.  
...
 
That's really sad.
 
For the longest time, and this helped bring up a Flora Purim, Gilly Smyth, and a Damo to a lot of music out there, and they were not the only ones, there was a VERY BIG MOVEMENT, in theater and film, that the voice, is also an "instrument".
 
I find it terribly sad, to see it all relegated to simply "lirics" in the rock'n'roll crap style, and not appreciated as a vehicle for another intstrument in the music.
 
This is the part that is the weakest in the PA when it comes to music and its history. In the end we do not care about inventive and different venues that brought out something else that was not there before.
 
But all we can think of is "lyrics" and Jane had a gun! Some "lyrics" come off stronger and more to the point and effective, and are better "acted" out, than sung, but we have lost the ability to tell the difference? Again, we have lost the ability to find and create new venues for communication, because we can only determine it by the "lyrics" that we like and understand?

Unhappy Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, moan, bloody moan.

Do you always have to be so condescendingly negative all the time? Is it completely impossible for you to credit the people here with a fraction of your discernment and insight?


...and who is Jane?
 
And you are so bothered that you have to spend yor time commenting when someone says something you don't like?
 
You're just being no different than I, except that you are showing a more negative old side than I am. I'm merely stating that there were other events and ideas that helped bring the music forth but in your mind it's all a fudged up stick of Harry Potter's! 
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910 11>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.199 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.