The Atheist - Agnostic - Non religious thread

Equality 7-2521 wrote: Big stupid debate for Nye to have become a part of.

Although this remains true, you must admit that Nye did a better job than you expected.

I cannot deny that. He made some tactical errors and showed himself to be the less competent speaker, but he certainly came off as informed and enthusiastic. I have no trouble saying that he would be the winner in the eyes of a neutral audience.

ExittheLemming wrote:   Is that like a lapsed atheist? If the existence of a deity is unknowable then how could one possibly consign us to eternal damnation or grant eternal salvation if we are blissfully ignorant to such perdition/grace? Is this a variation on that old chestnut 'ignorance of the law is no defense m'lud?' (pun intended)

I accept Christian tradition and Christian values, but I'm not a religious person. I don't go to church, I don't believe in resurrection (at least in a carnal form) and I don't even know if there's any God, but it's not a matter of God. I believe in Christian values simply because they work.

LSDisease wrote: ExittheLemming wrote:   Is that like a lapsed atheist? If the existence of a deity is unknowable then how could one possibly consign us to eternal damnation or grant eternal salvation if we are blissfully ignorant to such perdition/grace? Is this a variation on that old chestnut 'ignorance of the law is no defense m'lud?' (pun intended) I accept Christian tradition and Christian values, but I'm not a religious person. I don't go to church, I don't believe in resurrection (at least in a carnal form) and I don't even know if there's any God, but it's not a matter of God. I believe in Christian values simply because they work.

Christian values are not unique in any way to Christianity.

Creationists don't really convince people of anything. They affirm what people want to believe. Creationism is a defense mechanism. I gets no converts unless those are converts to Christianity. 

Well, let's use the words "keeps them" and "blinds them". 

Edited by The T - February 05 2014 at 09:05

This paragraph in another article I think says it all about the difference between science and religious beliefs: 

The T wrote: This paragraph in another article I think says it all about the difference between science and religious beliefs:  "That all was further confirmed when a member of the audience asked what turned out to be the crux of the debate: what, if anything, would convince the men to change their minds? Ham’s answer: “I’m a Christian.” (In other words, nothing.) Nye, on the other hand, was happy to concede that just one piece of evidence to support a Biblical interpretation of Earth’s formation — that the universe is not expanding, or that rock layers can somehow form in just 4,000 years — would cause him to change his mind “immediately.”

Everyone watching could just feel Ham's panic when that question was asked because it's really the only thing you needed to know about the entire event.

To steal a tweet stolen by Jerry Coyne stolen by someone else:



Edited by Equality 7-2521 - February 05 2014 at 10:16

The T wrote: Well, let's use the words "keeps them" and "blinds them".  I just read an article basically saying what you said, and I find so many idiotic things that this Ham guy said... Oh the stupidity. Article

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 05 2014 at 10:35

I don't even know why I feel the need to bring this up, but I'm going to do so.

Despite what the Pope(s) like to claim, the Catholic Church does not accept evolution unless we participate in some equivocation which is at the core the same thing that young earth creationists do to say that they believe in evolution.

The Church is quite specific in its belief that humans arose out of evolution as an end point. They view an evolutionary tree from the first organism which a bunch of arrows which down generation to generation and eventually end up on humans where the journey is complete. This is at odds with evolution as we understand how it works. It is a common teleological fallacy that permeates many Catholics and often leads to fundamental misunderstandings in evolutionary science. Indeed, Creationists use this faulty belief to formulate strawman arugments against evolution.