Political discussion thread

All your friends are Republicans I assume?
It's all BS...he hasn't really done much as VP (and really what can ya expect? We rarely have a Cheney) Biden was actually well respected by both parties, and highly regarded with foreign policy. Back in the day there were rumblings that he and McCain would run together for President as some cross party, bridge building thing.
Funny how that turned out.

Anyway, the GOP needs to hate everything even slightly associated with Obama or else they lose their good republican card. I remember when people would tell me "GAH! BIDEN WANTS A POLICE STATE!" I'd ask: how so?
And they stare at me with clueless looks. I'd then respond: Limbaugh or Beck, who told you to think this? And they'd get mad and leave

dtguitarfan wrote: Pretty much, Brian. I live in the south and most of my friends I have met through the church we go to and are still under the unfortunate assumption that the Republican party is the party that better represents Christianity.

That assumption is just as amusing as the assumption that any US political party represents Christianity.

dtguitarfan wrote: Epignosis wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: Pretty much, Brian. I live in the south and most of my friends I have met through the church we go to and are still under the unfortunate assumption that the Republican party is the party that better represents Christianity. That assumption is just as amusing as the assumption that any US political party represents Christianity. You have to choose a side - not choosing is essentially the same as siding with whichever side is stronger.

Not really; for example, we have a small but vocal group of libertarians on this site who don't side with either major party. 

Plus, picking a side on political issues is not the same as singling one side out as representing Christianity.  I can list several reasons why a Christian would support either side.  For example, Christians are supposed to help the poor, right?  So on entitlements:

A Christian liberal might say that the government should help the weakest in our society by offering them assistance in the form of welfare, unemployment benefits, etc.  According to him, we should all be able to accept higher taxes in order to love our neighbor by supporting the government in providing help to the poor.

A Christian conservative might say that, although charity is a good thing, it is not the role of the government, but of the church and the individual, to help the poor.  He might argue that the government would be inefficient and indiscriminate in charity and that helping the poor should be something done of an individual's own free will, not of the coercion (through taxes) of the government.

Let me clarify. Indeed, the primary responsibility of the Christian is to love God and love people. I believe that this should (and will naturally, if you're doing it right) permeate all aspects of life. So I believe that it should affect politics, and I seek to form a political opinion that is shaped by the goal of loving God and people. And the Bible tells me that the best example of love is Jesus, so as I form my opinions on political subjects I should be thinking about how he might approach the subject. On welfare, I don't think Jesus would care if he was in church or in congress, he'd be giving to the poor, man!

Also, I do respect that some people have abandoned the Republican party and voted Libertarian. For me, I feel many Democrats represent the opinions I've formulated better.

dtguitarfan wrote: Let me clarify. Indeed, the primary responsibility of the Christian is to love God and love people. I believe that this should (and will naturally, if you're doing it right) permeate all aspects of life. So I believe that it should affect politics, and I seek to form a political opinion that is shaped by the goal of loving God and people. And the Bible tells me that the best example of love is Jesus, so as I form my opinions on political subjects I should be thinking about how he might approach the subject. On welfare, I don't think Jesus would care if he was in church or in congress, he'd be giving to the poor, man!

That's fair, and I respect it, but at the same time you have to realize that Christian conservatives/republicans/libertarians consider these kinds of questions also.  I think that the sentiment and the goals of Christians on both sides are consistent with their faith (I can't say the same thing about the goals of the non-Christian members of either party, obviously). 

Personally, I oppose the welfare state with regard to the federal government; I'm not against some simple laws that assist those who can't help themselves.  It's another matter at the state and local level, where I believe governments can be more involved in assisting the poor.  That way, since the assistance is on a smaller scale, it can be more personal, wise, and specific than some blanket welfare law passed by an out-of-control government that disregards what is going on in specific regions and to specific individuals. 

dtguitarfan wrote: On welfare, I don't think Jesus would care if he was in church or in congress, he'd be giving to the poor, man!

Giving to the poor of your own volition is not the same as taking someone else's money to give to the poor.

Epignosis wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: On welfare, I don't think Jesus would care if he was in church or in congress, he'd be giving to the poor, man! Giving to the poor of your own volition is not the same as taking someone else's money to give to the poor.

Tell that to the poor...

Epignosis wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: Epignosis wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: On welfare, I don't think Jesus would care if he was in church or in congress, he'd be giving to the poor, man! Giving to the poor of your own volition is not the same as taking someone else's money to give to the poor. Tell that to the poor... I've been there.  I still had the same opinion then.

Spoiled little poor kid.

Epignosis wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: On welfare, I don't think Jesus would care if he was in church or in congress, he'd be giving to the poor, man! Giving to the poor of your own volition is not the same as taking someone else's money to give to the poor.

I've worked at companies that donated to various organizations. I don't see much difference between that and welfare - I'd prefer some of the money they take from my paycheck to go to worthy causes as opposed to useless wars of idealism in countries we have no business being in. I don't see how the Right-Wing can attack the Left's patriotism over not supporting wars they disagree with and then claim to be patriots themselves while they threaten civil war over taxes going to worthy causes.

Epignosis wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: Epignosis wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: On welfare, I don't think Jesus would care if he was in church or in congress, he'd be giving to the poor, man! Giving to the poor of your own volition is not the same as taking someone else's money to give to the poor. I've worked at companies that donated to various organizations. I don't see much difference between that and welfare - I'd prefer some of the money they take from my paycheck to go to worthy causes as opposed to useless wars of idealism in countries we have no business being in. I don't see how the Right-Wing can attack the Left's patriotism over not supporting wars they disagree with and then claim to be patriots themselves while they threaten civil war over taxes going to worthy causes. A donation is free and voluntary.  Welfare takes money from people who may not have been willing to give it.

All taxes do that. I don't see your point.

Edited by HackettFan - January 02 2013 at 15:16