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The Doctor 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
 Posted: December 22 2012 at 00:05 |
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Well, Jim, if you have the resources and desire to make a fortress of your home, yes, you are right, the chances of them catching you by surprise is little. However, back in 97, while living in an apartment with sliding glass doors and watching television, a rock came crashing through that door. Now it just so happened it was some punk kids just causing havoc in the hood. But if it had been armed thugs, they could have walked right in on us and even had I had a gun (I've never owned one), they would have caught us completely by surprise and there would have been nothing we could have done about it. Of course I will no longer live in an apartment with sliding glass doors. But in most instances, if a criminal really wants to get into your house and catch you by surprise (a home invasion), there's not much you can do about it unless you have your house locked up tighter than fort knox.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 02:26 |
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How many house burglaries happen when the house is occupied? An occupied house, whether the occupant is armed or not, is an unnecessary complication and increases the chances of getting caught. A seasoned house-breaker can get into any house no matter what domestic security is in place, if you are protected like Fort Knox then you are advertising that you have something worth protecting - the burglar is not to know what that is. What it does protect against is opportunistic bandits who see an open window and are in like Flinn.
I know people don't like statistics because they can be used to tell whatever story you want to tell but that's because people are very bad at interpreting and understanding numeric information, the numbers themselves do not lie: comparisons of the burglary rates per country show no correlation to gun control (or lack of) - that means they cannot be used to show that gun control does or does not work but can they be used to show that gun ownership is not a deterrent.
Nor is gun ownership a viable means of defence during a house break-in, as Chester said - the bandit has the advantage every time and think about it - you own a gun to stop him shooting you and he carries one to stop you shooting him - this is not an even contest - if he sees a gun he will fire. |
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What?
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 03:03 |
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Given the option between you having a gun during a burglary and you not having a gun, you would be indifferent to either choice?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: May 16 2009 Location: Blighty Status: Offline Points: 6797 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 03:09 |
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Another vague statistic is you are several times more likely to get shot if you carry a gun than if you are not. Of course there are many reasons for this .
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Help me I'm falling!
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 03:25 |
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I am not uncomfortable with guns, nor am I unfamilar with them - I grew up with guns and I have owned guns, my uncle was president of a police gun-club and I had access to a wide varitey of firearms. In my youth I was a pretty good a shot and could slaughter paper targets, clays and tin cans with wild abandon - what I could never do was shoot at a living creature, even a rat.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 03:31 |
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This is simple supply and demand economics, this is simple maths - you can either reduce the supply, or you can reduce the demand or you can do both, what you cannot do is neither. Addressing the causes of the demand is obviously the best solution - cure poverty, cure drug dependancy, cure drug trafficking, cure organised crime, cure violent crime, cure the glorification of guns, cure depression and mental illness, cure domestic abuse, cure all of the social and economic causes of violent crime - but first of all reduce the availability of guns to those people. Europe (and especially Britain) is not a paragon of virtue - we have all those "demand" problems and have not succeeded in reducing any of them by any appreciable degree - what we do have is a different attitude towards guns and killing, perhaps that is the result of having two world wars fought on our soil and having parents and grandparents who witnessed mass slaughter first hand, but that does not explain the attitude of my generation or my children's generation to guns.
As I have said, there are no short-term fixes for this problem, all viable solutions will take time to become effective. Edited by Dean - December 22 2012 at 03:35 |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65616 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 03:32 |
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Besides, we have our kitties for that. |
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smartpatrol
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 15 2012 Location: My Bedroom Status: Offline Points: 14169 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 03:33 |
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I'm going to state my current views on gun control:
If people want guns, they should have guns. But sense guns can be very dangerous, it is important to make sure that they don't fall into the wrong hands If someone wants a gun license, they should have to go through a very through and strict background check and psychological test. These should be redone annually in order to make sure that person remains stable. I also think automatic weapons should be outlawed for use outside the military. I don't see why you would need an automatic weapon, even for home security. They are far too dangerous and far to lethal. |
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smartpatrol
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 15 2012 Location: My Bedroom Status: Offline Points: 14169 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 03:34 |
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 yup |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 03:41 |
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We have four cats and they are very effective for vermin control - I am not squeamish over a dead rodent.
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 03:45 |
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Also, rodents almost never bear arms.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 03:46 |
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What you must never do is arm bears.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 03:46 |
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How many home burglaries are committed with a weapon? I tried a quick search to find out, but I couldn't seem to find data. I would expect the number to be low, but who knows? I respect your viewpoint and I would agree with you in the case of humans. |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 03:50 |
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 Several images are currently running through my mind, none of em are what you'd call sane.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 04:21 |
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I couldn't find that data either, nor could I find data on how many burglaries occurred when the homeowner was present - I too would expect the numbers to be low. What data there is shows no correlation between the burglary rates by country and gun control. As a justification for gun ownership I find it to be a weak one, if it gives the gun-owner peace of mind in a violent world I can understand the idea behind it, I don't think I would come out of it too well mentally if I shot an armed burglar, worse still if he was unarmed.
I think I have disturbed a burglar who attempted to break into my home - though at the time I was unaware that a break in was in progress. I woke up one morning to discover that all the outside doors to my car-port had been wedged open, presumably to allow the bandit to make off with whatever he could carry. A thorough check of the contents of all sheds and outhouses showed than nothing had been taken, and none of the (locked) doors into the house had been forced even though the car port contained several tools (including power tools, saws, axes and hammers) that could have been used; at the time the patio table was stacked high with booze (as it still is now) and the burglar had even used a case of champagne to prop open one of the doors, yet nothing was missing. Obviously he had been disturbed during the act and fled empty handed. Talking to the neighbours the following day there was a report of a burglary in the village at around 4am that night.
At that approximate time I had got up to go to the toilet (yeah, I'm at that stage in life...
 ) and padded downstairs without getting dressed, having relieved my bladder I went back to bed. I can only guess that the sight of me unclothed had frightened him off...  |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65616 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 05:48 |
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I can't get behind the whole 'let the critters go' thing-- my cat brings home a rat or bird I'm not gonna set his hard-earned meal and plaything free okay okay, back to topic, jeez don't bite my head off ... |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 06:22 |
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I can tell you one when my wife was alone in the bathroom... |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32553 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 06:44 |
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How will a gun protect me from being robbed? Ask these people. Their stories begin on page 20. |
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011 Location: Chattanooga, TN Status: Offline Points: 1708 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 06:55 |
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So? The point still stands, having armed guards does not stop shootings, it just means the shooters will have to work a bit harder. Also, you're big on being all mad about the "unjust" amount we are taxed - you don't think if we start putting a dozen or so guards at every school that this won't result in your taxes being raised? |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32553 |
Posted: December 22 2012 at 06:59 |
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All (or almost all) of the burglaries here happen when "no one" is home. We found out there is a house that watches people's comings and goings. I use the punctuation there because sometimes the thief doesn't know the home is occupied. Last year, someone broke into the home three doors down across the street, thinking it was empty, and there was a man there who had just settled down for a nap when the ruckus started. Another matter to consider is that we neighbors look after each other. When we are not home, the neighbors watch our house. We keep an eye and ear out for our neighbors. The fellow across the street chased down a man trying to get into the house next door. He chased him into the woods, and, while he did not catch him, he got a decent description for the police. The first year I lived here, I called 911 six times total. In the past six months, things have been relatively peaceful. I attribute that mostly to the neighbors on this street looking out for each other and their homes. Unfortunately, not everyone can depend on their neighbors, and in any event, I would rather have a gun and not need one than not have one and need it. |
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Guns, mass shootings, and related.
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Equality 7-2521 wrote:
