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npjnpj 
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 Topic: Zappa - Zeuhl?
Posted: November 29 2012 at 05:09 |
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I was just going through some early Mothers Of Invention albums yesterday, and on listeming to the Track "Help, I'm a Rock" from the Freak Out album, it suddenly struck me that this is Zeuhl! I always knew that I was missing something when listening to this track, and I just realised this.
It seems a distinct possibility in my mind now that Christian Vander actually took this track and developed his Zeuhl concept from it. Most of it seems to be there: The heavy percussion, weird language, chanting, repeating slowly developing theme. Zeuhl seems to have picked up the concept and expanded on it.
Help I'm a Rock, especially the first part, reminded me of MDK.
Just listen to this track. Like so many other things we should perhaps think of crediting FZ with actually having laid the groundstone for Zeuhl.
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friso
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Posted: November 29 2012 at 05:25 |
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I would rather point to these musical works:
Carl Orff - Carminia Burana
Coltrane - My favourite things
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irrelevant
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Posted: November 29 2012 at 05:52 |
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I can see where you're coming from, but I've always felt just a general psych rock/experimental vibe from it.
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zravkapt
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Posted: November 29 2012 at 07:13 |
 npjnpj wrote:
Like so many other things we should perhaps think of crediting FZ with actually having laid the groundstone for Zeuhl.
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Um, no. Frank was/is probably more influential than many will admit, but he really didn't influence what became Zeuhl. I'm sure Vander was aware of him and he was influenced by Soft Machine who were influenced by FZ. I wouldn't doubt that non-Magma Zeuhl musicians were influenced by him, but apart from that Eros album by Dun(which I consider more avant-prog) the influence is not very noticeable. I would say I'm familiar with "Help, I'm A Rock" but I actually haven't listened to Freak Out! in years, mainly because my music collection was f***ing stolen years ago.
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Magma America Great Make Again
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Triceratopsoil
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Posted: November 29 2012 at 07:38 |
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no
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HolyMoly
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Posted: November 29 2012 at 07:51 |
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Help I'm a Rock really isn't coming from the same musical mindset as Zeuhl later did. It's just a one chord vamp in a waltz tempo, where Zappa wanted to overlay some melodies from Eastern scales. At it's heart, it's a non-Western dance number -- whereas Zeuhl comes from a more cosmic/fantasy attitude. Something much more unworldly than what Zappa was trying to do. I do see some similarity in the repetitiveness of it, but not much more than that.
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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Neu!mann
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Posted: November 29 2012 at 12:29 |
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I would look toward Germany rather than France to see a more immediate Zappa influence. Help I'm a Rock is embryonic Krautrock more than Zeuhl. Listen to early Faust in particular for proof...
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"we can change the world without anyone noticing the difference" - Franco Falsini
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Guldbamsen
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Posted: November 29 2012 at 12:45 |
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I can sort of see the comparison, but Zeuhl or whatever nametag one wishes to apply, was like many other developing musical styles, a continuation of what went before it. It was the culmination of.a lot.of things, but mainly the endemic French take on fusion and jazz. One that started as early as the 50s with all of these American soldiers who incidentally also happened to be jazz musicians - going abroad and finding an audience who thought of them as liberators , instead of 'Negros'....
France also had composers such as Varese and Ferrari who both fiddled around with distinctive stuttering sound sculptures and what later fully emerged as the teutonic branch of music.
But Zappa influencing, spawning Zeuhl singlehandedly? Nahh, I don't think so.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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darkshade
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Posted: November 29 2012 at 13:05 |
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Zappa also pre-dates the birth of jazz-rock/fusion on the second Mothers album "Absolutely Free". Thing is, Zappa can be categorized in a number of sub-genres, both prog or otherwise.
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Zappa - Zeuhl?
