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Topic ClosedTrolls scare a band from PA

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Snow Dog View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2012 at 16:54
Originally posted by Life Line Project Life Line Project wrote:

I fortunately do.........Wink

Not  really.  You  would have  been better off informing Admin here. Then your problem could possibly have been sorted without your deletion. We'll never know now  and you lost out.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2012 at 17:04
Like I already wrote: I asked M@x for advice, but he did nothing.
And Iván contacted Admin, but their first response was that everything was hard to prove.
Only when we left PA Admin acted!!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2012 at 17:15
Originally posted by Life Line Project Life Line Project wrote:

Like I already wrote: I asked M@x for advice, but he did nothing.
And Iván contacted Admin, but their first response was that everything was hard to prove.
Only when we left PA Admin acted!!!!

But YOU did not contact Admin. And they  haven't acted since you left, they are always deleting  bogus ratings. IF THEY ARE REPORTED!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2012 at 17:24
We can discuss about this a long time, but I still regret M@x didn't reply and Iván wasn't taken seriously.
This is what Iván responded after we left PA: "your retirement gave me weapons to delete some of the trolls".
Trolls were removed after Iván started this thread.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2012 at 17:30
Originally posted by Life Line Project Life Line Project wrote:

We can discuss about this a long time, but I still regret M@x didn't reply and Iván wasn't taken seriously.
This is what Iván responded after we left PA: "your retirement gave me weapons to delete some of the trolls".
Trolls were removed after Iván started this thread.....
I repeat. You would have been better contacting Admin.  Your info is based  second hand on hearsay.  Trolls as  you call them have been removed  despite this thread.


Edited by Snow Dog - November 11 2012 at 17:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2012 at 17:42
Nonsense!!!
I read this discussion and think Prog Archives should have helped this band earlier. He asked a special collaborator for help.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2012 at 18:06
Originally posted by Life Line Project Life Line Project wrote:








I am happy a lot of trolls were removed. I think it also might have affected other bands.
Erik - Life Line Project



It did...greatly affected my band's (Ocean Architecture) place in the rankings...not like it matters THAT much, but it's still upsetting when people mess with the system. After the trolls were deleted our score went from 3.6 something to 4.16
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2012 at 18:13
A asked Erik to addc LLP again,

There'0s a huge list of trolls that vanished, I believe there are moprev weapons nos.

Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2012 at 18:21
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Life Line Project Life Line Project wrote:

We can discuss about this a long time, but I still regret M@x didn't reply and Iván wasn't taken seriously.
This is what Iván responded after we left PA: "your retirement gave me weapons to delete some of the trolls".
Trolls were removed after Iván started this thread.....
I repeat. You would have been better contacting Admin.  Your info is based  second hand on hearsay.  Trolls as  you call them have been removed  despite this thread.

I'm taking no credit Snow Dog, Erik must had misunderstood me, I'm trying to locate M@X for a long time, but my PMs and e-mails remain not replied, and honestly, this forum is not the friendliest place for me lately.

I don't delete bands or ratings, I told him that from the start.

The good thing is that a lot of trolls were deleted yesterday....Dean missed my post reporting those two trolls (It's normal, he had a huge list to work with) but now it's easier to deal with this guys.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 11 2012 at 18:27
            
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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2012 at 19:00
Hi Eric,
 
I deleted the bogus ratings and I regret to say that it was not in response to this thread or as a result of you removing your band from the archive, if I had been made aware of the problem sooner I may have acted sooner. If Iván informed another Admin of this probem I am not aware of it, unfortunately I missed the thread where he posted the two names that concerned him, but he never mentioned anything of your plight.
 
The process of removing the bogus ratings began a day or two before this thread was started in another thread and was instigated by members of other bands raising this issue. 
 
I do not remove ratings without strong evidence - I will not remove a member's ratings just because he gives 1-star and 5-star ratings, some people are naturally very polarised in their rating, that in itself is not evidence of abuse of the system. Yesterday I managed to collect enough good evidence that one or two people were using multiple accounts to post bogus ratings for me to act and promptly deleted them and suspended the fake accounts. The "troll" responsible returned twice yesterday and hit us again with 100s of bogus ratings - I caught him both times and deleted all the ratings - I cannot give guarantees that he will not return. 
 
It is regretable that you have chosen to have your band removed from the archive, but in all honesty I have to repeat what I have said before - there is nothing I can do to stop trolls from abusing the system - that's a simple fact of life, if someone wants to be an arsehole they will be an arsehole - all I can do is remove them once I can prove they are doing wrong.
 
I hope you do reconsider and allow Iván to add you back to the PA. Unfortunately we will not be able to recover any of the reviews your albums may have had - those are lost forever.
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2012 at 19:13
Originally posted by Life Line Project Life Line Project wrote:

I sent M@x a long mail (in French) reporting this problem on October 18, but he never sent a reply!! Last Wednesday I finally decided to leave PA and contacted M@x again.
The only response I got the next day is: "Will do right now. Done. Sorry about that.
So it took you a few tries but you finally got results and received a very thoughtful email back from M@x apologizing and immediately fixing the problem.  I'd be pleased.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2012 at 19:13
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Hi Eric,
 
I deleted the bogus ratings and I regret to say that it was not in response to this thread or as a result of you removing your band from the archive, if I had been made aware of the problem sooner I may have acted sooner. If Iván informed another Admin of this probem I am not aware of it, unfortunately I missed the thread where he posted the two names that concerned him, but he never mentioned anything of your plight.
 
The process of removing the bogus ratings began a day or two before this thread was started in another thread and was instigated by members of other bands raising this issue. 
 
I do not remove ratings without strong evidence - I will not remove a member's ratings just because he gives 1-star and 5-star ratings, some people are naturally very polarised in their rating, that in itself is not evidence of abuse of the system. Yesterday I managed to collect enough good evidence that one or two people were using multiple accounts to post bogus ratings for me to act and promptly deleted them and suspended the fake accounts. The "troll" responsible returned twice yesterday and hit us again with 100s of bogus ratings - I caught him both times and deleted all the ratings - I cannot give guarantees that he will not return. 
 
It is regretable that you have chosen to have your band removed from the archive, but in all honesty I have to repeat what I have said before - there is nothing I can do to stop trolls from abusing the system - that's a simple fact of life, if someone wants to be an arsehole they will be an arsehole - all I can do is remove them once I can prove they are doing wrong.
 
I hope you do reconsider and allow Iván to add you back to the PA. Unfortunately we will not be able to recover any of the reviews your albums may have had - those are lost forever.

Luckily I have the bio, the photos, and at least all my reviews backuped

That's something I learned as a lawyer....Always backup Wink

Oops, I don't have the bio, but that can be done again, 

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 11 2012 at 19:34
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 11 2012 at 19:48
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by Life Line Project Life Line Project wrote:

I sent M@x a long mail (in French) reporting this problem on October 18, but he never sent a reply!! Last Wednesday I finally decided to leave PA and contacted M@x again.
The only response I got the next day is: "Will do right now. Done. Sorry about that.
So it took you a few tries but you finally got results and received a very thoughtful email back from M@x apologizing and immediately fixing the problem.  I'd be pleased.

David, Eric asked for his band to be removed from the PA, and that's what Max did - that's not fixing the problem.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 12:10
It saddens me that a bunch of bogus raters resulted in a band removing themselves. If this band read this thread can they please reconsider as we value them highly; it is what makes this site great, the fact that bands can be discovered. Now sadly many will never have that privilege.

I noticed the bogus ratings merely because some bands asked me for advice as to what can be done. I pointed them to the admins and it appears they contacted them as I can do nothing but complain and wait for an admin to take action. In another thread I did bring to some admins attention and at least it was discussed.

When Dean deleted all the bogus ratings I was relieved as were the bands, that at least someone did something to fix the problem.

I am with others here that we should get rid of that lazybutt ratngs system, It should be a review and rating at least so you can see some legitimacy in the rating.  I dont even bother to look at the ratings as they mean absolutely nothing.They are virtually useless and can be abused and too often are.

Just my thoughts. 


Edited by AtomicCrimsonRush - November 12 2012 at 12:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 13:21
Hopefully the protocol with problematic issues could be enforced yet more clearer to people involved.
I'm sorry to hear people hurt their feelings with manipulated ratings, they can be fixed.
I believe some patience is however needed with reply times and if the musicians believe to the thing they are doing, esay detectable one-star mickey-mouse trollings could be tolerated until deleted.

I wish peace to you all and hope the spores of positive interaction will bloom later. Ying Yang
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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 13:38
The ratings-only should be subject to a seperate counting-system with its own chart and not be used to calculate the average ratings or main chart postition. This will allow the rating abusers to play at their hearts content without upsetting anyone and give a more accurate reflection of an albums popularity rather than a band or genre's unpopularity.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 13:58
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The ratings-only should be subject to a seperate counting-system with its own chart and not be used to calculate the average ratings or main chart postition. This will allow the rating abusers to play at their hearts content without upsetting anyone and give a more accurate reflection of an albums popularity rather than a band or genre's unpopularity.

That's something we asked a long time ago..Bravo Dean.


A troll would have to write a 200 words review to mess with ratings, and that would limit it, being that it takes time.

Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 14:16
A troll will always find a way to be a troll.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 14:38
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The ratings-only should be subject to a seperate counting-system with its own chart and not be used to calculate the average ratings or main chart postition. This will allow the rating abusers to play at their hearts content without upsetting anyone and give a more accurate reflection of an albums popularity rather than a band or genre's unpopularity.

That's something we asked a long time ago..Bravo Dean.


A troll would have to write a 200 words review to mess with ratings, and that would limit it, being that it takes time.

Iván


That would be great to see ratings have no effectBig smile

I wonder if albums would then jump back or forward when those ratings are rejigged to have no effect.... InterestingSleepy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2012 at 14:55
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The ratings-only should be subject to a seperate counting-system with its own chart and not be used to calculate the average ratings or main chart postition. This will allow the rating abusers to play at their hearts content without upsetting anyone and give a more accurate reflection of an albums popularity rather than a band or genre's unpopularity.
I don't think it's a good decision. There could be some rating abusers, but most people give honest ratings. It's like if police would arrest everybody because some criminals are around. 
We already have much more than necessary reviews of popular albums, I always say hundreds of reviews of some albums is a crazy thing. 
We'll solve one problem and get a number of poorly written reviews instead.

And let's not forget, ratings without reviews is the only way to give their opinion for people who don't feel they can write good reviews or think that their English is poor for this. Why do we need to separate these people?

Please leave the system as it is! 




Edited by NotAProghead - November 12 2012 at 14:59
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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