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Ivan_Melgar_M 
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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 Topic: Trolls scare a band from PA
Posted: November 09 2012 at 23:01 |
Some weeks ago I received a mail from Erik de Beer from Like Line Project.
The guy was really pissed, because apparently a group of guys who supported the band Battlestation or Trascend (According to him, not sure which one) and their later release started to give a 1 star rating to the latest albums by Life Line Project.
A relatively unknown band with few reviews and a decent rating , suffers if 20 trolls start to flood them with 1 star ratings.
He wanted to leave ProgArchives, I talked with him and his sister Dorinde, but the ratings without reviews continued.
Today I read a mail from him telling me that he had retired the band from PA, I believe M@X or an ADM deleted the band for him.
Sadly we lost them, being that the band is really good, they mentioned ProgArchives in their last 4 albums, and I consider Erik a friend, even when I don't support his attitude, but this could be the first one of several deletions if we don't stop the manipulators who want their favorite band to be the best of the year.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 10 2012 at 00:21
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 01:26 |
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Is it completely impossible that 20 people legitimately thought the album was rubbish?
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Raccoon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2012
Location: 444 Grove St RZ
Status: Offline
Points: 763
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 02:32 |
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His last album 20 Years After got fantastic reviews here. (I remember!! Many 5 star reviews!) It seems a bit drastic to just leave the site altogether as--good or bad--prog lovers will SEE the albums.
Every album has some 1 star reviews. EVERY. ONE. Even Close To The Edge, and I believe he lost many prog-goers that could've checked out the album from here. I, (and I'm sure many others) only refer to this site to check out the latest albums in prog.
As Triceratopsoil said, if a bunch of people are giving the album 1 star, they obviously don't like the album much. The raters obviously don't take the rating guidelines properly, as it should've been at least 2 stars for fans.
Anyways, it's too bad because he seemed to be quite liked on this site. Maybe he'll come to his senses later.
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Check out my FREE album: A one-man project The Distant Dynasty
https://distantdynasty.bandcamp.com/
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 03:00 |
Another example of the downside of the "quick ratings" facility. 
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Snow Dog
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
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Points: 32995
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 04:37 |
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^Can't disagree there Bob. But this guy seems very thin skinned. Better to be here than not, whatever the ratings I would have thought?
Edited by Snow Dog - November 10 2012 at 04:44
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 04:50 |
Ratings only will never be a good system. At first it sounds good, but some people are extreeme and its so easy to use it in ways not intended.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 05:10 |
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Why didn't you bring this to our attention weeks ago?
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What?
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Snow Dog
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 05:26 |
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^What...Admin were not informed? So how come Max didn't say anything but just deleted them. Also strange...
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 05:51 |
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...not strange (really)
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What?
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
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Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 05:52 |
 Dean wrote:
...not strange (really) |
Maybe not. 
I suppose I'm saying that if it was my site I would have informed my Admin boys and see if the could sort something out. Or at least so they knew. But I'm not Max. And if I had been Ivan I would have informed someone in Admin about this situation ages ago. But I'm not Ivan.
Edited by Snow Dog - November 10 2012 at 05:55
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13634
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 06:24 |
Bloody good job too mate. Wouldn't like you very much if you were 
I do find it staggering that the admins were not informed, and if I were an admin, I would be pretty brassed off, to be honest.
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 06:59 |
Maybe ratings without reviews isn't such a good idea after all. This case may be an exception, but it happened and it can happen again, and it's sad and unnecessary . I know that presenting the option of people being able to rate alone without reviews fits good within the current internet culture. But maybe it's not the best thing for the PA database.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 08:04 |
Slightly more disappointing than not being given the opportunity to correct this is the fact that the evidence has been deleted so we will never know who these 20 rating manipulators are and what other albums they have affected with their selfish actions.
Shame.
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What?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 09:32 |
The fact is that I was never informed he talked with M@X, I spoke repeatedly with him and his sister Dorinde (who manages the band), and I convinced her they were better here than away from PA.
This is the sequence
1.- He wanted to talk directly with M@X and asked me absolute discretion, but I never made the contact.with M@X
2.- I convinced his sister Dorinde (manager of the band) not to retire Life Line Project, as a fact I supposed she would never find M@X.
2.- He insisted to keep this directly with M@X and nobody else,
3.- I have a great relation with his sister Dorinde and convinced her this was negative for them, his sister told me everything was OK and that she agreed with me , and then I lost the trace of them, I never talked with M@x or knew he talked with M@X, but as far as i know, everything was solved
4.- I had no communication with Erik, for a month and no news from him
5.- I notified the Adms the name of two of this guys in the proper thread
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
The users
GREWOLDERHTP and ADELIS
Have similar ratings to almost the same rare albums
Seem like trolls to me
Iván
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=85724&PN=4 |
My post is there unread
6.- I thought everything was forgotten
7.- I received his mail yesterday informing me that he found 20 more reviews and that he had already retired the band with M@X without notifying me.
I had no participation in the removal if LIFE LINE PROJECT or even knew he had retired the band until yesterday
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 10 2012 at 10:11
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 09:42 |
Dean wrote:
Why didn't you bring this to our attention weeks ago? |
1.- Because I thought everything was solved
2.- Because you have stated repeatedly you can't do a thing with trolls.
3.- I notified about two of them and nothing was done
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 10 2012 at 09:44
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 09:53 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
The fact is that I was never informed he talked with M@X, I spoke repeatedly with him and his sister Dorinde (who manages the band), and I convinced her they were better here than away from PA.
This is the sequence
1.- He wanted to talk directly with M@X and asked me absolute discretion, but I never made the contact.with M@X
2.- I convinced his sister Dorinde (manager of the band) not to retire Life Line Project, as a fact I supposed she would never find M@X.
2.- He insisted to keep this directly with M@X and nobody else,
3.- I have a great relation with his sister Dorinde and convinced her this was negative for them, his sister told me everything was OK and that she agreed with me , and then I lost the trace of them, I never talked with M@x or knew he talked with M@X, but as far as i know, everything was solved
4.- I had no communication with Erik, for a month and no news from him
5.- I notified the Adms the name of two of this guys in the proper thread
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
The users
GREWOLDERHTP and ADELIS
Have similar ratings to almost the same rare albums
Seem like trolls to me
Iván
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=85724&PN=4 |
My post is there unread
6.- I thought everything was forgotten
7.- I received his mail yesterday informing me that he had founded 20 more reviews and that he had already retired the band with M@X without notifying me.
I had no participation in the removal if LIFE LINE PROJECT or even knew he had rfetired the band untikl yesterday
Iván
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Than you for taking the time to clear that up. Could you do this in future without larger font and bold type?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 10:08 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Than you for taking the time to clear that up. Could you do this in future without larger font and bold type? |
That's the way I write to highlight sections SD
I hope you accept my style.
Iván
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 10:10 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Than you for taking the time to clear that up. Could you do this in future without larger font and bold type? |
That's the way I write to highlight sections SD
I hope you accept my style.
Iván |
I find it rather irritating but if you must use it you must. Live and let live, so they say.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 10:27 |
Just in case, I received this mail yesterday
| Hi Iván, I am sorry to tell you that Erik has had his page removed from ProgArchives. Kind regards, Dorinde |
I don't even know how he did it
Iván
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Battlestations
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 30 2011
Location: Brussels
Status: Offline
Points: 62
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Posted: November 10 2012 at 11:16 |
Hi all,
Since we were directly mentioned in the first post, we'd like to specify that we didn't have anything to do with the ratings abuse and manipulation that took place over the last week or so. Just so that's clear.
Cheers
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Trolls scare a band from PA
