Political discussion thread

^ You do have a point (that the spending still grew), but I'd love to know how the numbers match up to how much in taxes they took in. I mean, population keeps growing and growing, so I'd assume that the amount of taxes taken in grew as well...but I am not in the know on that, so it is just an assumption.

Finnforest wrote: Apparently PA has tightened also but without resources being spent there I think that is highly unlikely to flip.

When I read this, I at first thought you were talking about the Prog Archives vote. It is true that neither campaign has put much money into flipping Prog fans over to their side.

thellama73 wrote: Finnforest wrote: Apparently PA has tightened also but without resources being spent there I think that is highly unlikely to flip.    When I read this, I at first thought you were talking about the Prog Archives vote. It is true that neither campaign has put much money into flipping Prog fans over to their side.

Oh this is no swing state. PA is blue as the sea...

dtguitarfan wrote: The T wrote: ^I assume you will vote for Obama? Heck yes - I actually like the guy, as opposed to the "lesser of two evils" argument I keep hearing from my Republican friends (I live in TN, so...my wife and I are the only people I know of who are voting this way). When even a Republican is willing to admit their choice is evil, that's telling, because the only reason they believe the Democrat is evil is because the evil Republicans told them he is!

I feel the exact opposite:

thellama73 wrote: I like him too. Of course I disagree with him on a lot, but he seems like a good person to me, which is more than I can say for Romney.

Edited by smartpatrol - October 27 2012 at 23:38

AlexDOM wrote: To me social issues matter the most.

Why on earth would you care more about whether or not a woman you don't even know has an abortion than, say, the economy (which affects you personally)?

thellama73 wrote: AlexDOM wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: The T wrote: ^I assume you will vote for Obama? Heck yes - I actually like the guy, as opposed to the "lesser of two evils" argument I keep hearing from my Republican friends (I live in TN, so...my wife and I are the only people I know of who are voting this way). When even a Republican is willing to admit their choice is evil, that's telling, because the only reason they believe the Democrat is evil is because the evil Republicans told them he is! Oh and I actually like Mitt too!!!  I like him too (and I know I will catch hell from the other libertarians for saying this.) Of course I disagree with him on a lot, but he seems like a good person to me, which is more than I can say for Obama.

Which Mitt is the one you think is a good person? The one who criticized every...single...d*** thing Obama did while in office and tried to stir all the crazy Republicans up into a murderous frenzy, or the one who came to the debate and agreed with everything he ever did in order to sell to the "normals"? The one who wants to cut all the good programs (veteran's benefits, tax breaks for middle class, etc.), or the one who claims he can work magic and eliminate debt without cutting ANYTHING and actually doing MORE of a lot of things (such as building more ships than the Navy even wants or needs)? The man is nothing but a lie - how do you know you like him?

Equality 7-2521 wrote: If you view abortion as murder, then that might kinda be a bigger deal than getting a $500 tax credit.

Here's my take. I actually disagree with Obama on the issue of abortion, because I do think abortion is immoral. HOWEVER...it's legal, it's been legal for a long time, and I'm not so sure making it illegal would do much good - it might make things worse because people would still be getting abortions, or doing them themselves with unsafe, at-home remedies. So, I'm glad I don't have to make that decision, really. And the whole thing about Obama being "for" partial birth abortions and such - let's be clear: the Republicans set a trap for him. No, really, think about it - they knew that bill was not going to pass, no matter what, because they'd need to overturn Roe Vs. Wade to get it to pass. So they put a bill that was not going to pass in front of a man who they KNEW was going to oppose it, and they made no exception for cases where the mother would die (it doesn't matter if you argue that this case never arises - give a little. Be sensible - if abortion is murder then there has to be a "self defense" clause, and you leave the morality of the matter up to the individual.). The only reason they put this bill in front of Obama was so that when he opposed it they could turn around and say "OBAMA LIKES TO KILL BABIES!!!" Let me put it to you this way - let's say I were to become a lawmaker (no way that will ever happen, I don't want the job, I don't think I'd be good at it - not gonna happen, but let's just say). If you came to me and told me that people were dying because of something that had been legal before I ever entered office and it's my fault because I haven't made it illegal - I am NOT going to feel any guilt. No way. But let's say I made something illegal that used to be legal, and someone could make a good case that people had died because I made it illegal - let's say guns, because Republicans seem to like them quite a bit. Let's say I made guns illegal, and 2 days later, Ricky Sue (who had to throw out her gun after my law passed) had her home broken into, and she was killed in her bedroom, next to the bed-stand where she used to keep her gun. I'd feel guilty. I would. Now keep in mind - I don't think abortion is moral! But, I don't think making it illegal is as easy a decision as some people make it out to be. Add to this some statistics - did you know that the state that had the highest abortion rate over the last 4 years was Massachussets? Mitt Romney's state? Did you know that the President with the lowest rate of abortions since they became legal was...Clinton? Clinton, who is evil incarnate to conservative Republicans? Kinda makes you think...

Yeah, I disagree with Obama on abortion, but I think he is moral for coming at it with a viewpoint that what is immoral does not necessarily equate to what should be illegal, and I am disgusted by the Christians out there who imply that you can't be a Christian and hold that viewpoint. I am disgusted by Billy Graham who hems and haws around Obama's Christianity (even after Obama told him personally that he was) and says things like "well, I can't say for sure that he's not a Muslim", and then turns around and removes statements from his website that say that Mormonism is a cult when the Republican candidate is a Mormon. And finally, I don't think there's much likelihood that Roe Vs. Wade is going to be overturned even IF Romney became president - I think saying "I'm against abortion" is the easiest thing to do as a Republican, and doesn't really mean much. It's like saying "if I had a gazillion dollars, I'd end poverty." It's not gonna happen! So why should I make that the issue that I base my vote 100% on?! Add to this the fact that people like Paul Ryan have basically been committing legal treason against the country for the last four years, and it makes no sense that Christian Republicans act all self righteous about holding the moral high ground in politics. I'd rather vote for someone I disagree with on some occasions who is actually trying to help than to vote for an evil two-faced liar who has been sabotaging the country in order to try to make Obama look bad because the #1 priority has been to get him out of office.

Before you call me crazy:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-altman/sabotage-book_b_1744343.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/13/1119591/-January-2009-Paul-Ryan-Literally-Plotted-To-Sabotage-U-S-Economy

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-creamer/republicans-attempt-to-ac_b_1576962.html">http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/07/23/how_republicans_sabotaged_the_recovery
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-creamer/republicans-attempt-to-ac_b_1576962.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/09/did-republicans-deliberately-crash-us-economy

http://tucsoncitizen.com/baja-democrats/2012/06/10/did-republicans-deliberately-sabotage-the-economy/

Take that into context with this as well:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/13/1119587/-On-Veterans-Rep-Paul-Davis-Ryan-Research-Report

I'm not an Obama guy, but I sincerely hope the middle part of this piece about Libya is proven completely false.  

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/331806/incredible-shrinking-president-mark-steyn

Good post Rob, it is fun to talk politics with people in a relaxed social setting, as  opposed to having to type out long arguments on a screen.  Esp if one does not wish to type much after typing all day at work. 

The MN Star Tribune, a firmly liberal paper who is no friend to conservatives, released a new D+5 poll this morning which has Romney within 3 points, within the margin of error, in MN.    Obama won by 10 points here in 2008 with a D+4 turnout.