Political discussion thread

thellama73 wrote: HarbouringTheSoul wrote: thellama73 wrote: It's a fair point, but social programs like the ones you mention are not about me trading my freedom for benefits (that would be perfectly acceptable) but it's about trading everyone else's freedom for my benefit. Add an opt-out clause and all of my objections go away. I don't think the few have the right to impose their values on the many. An opt-out clause automatically makes the programs unfinanceable, because those who have enough money will always opt out and buy a private plan. So yes, I'm also willing to trade off some of my liberties for the benefits of others. I understand why you find it troubling that you don't have any choice but to participate, but this is one of those cases where the will of the majority trumps your individual objections. Much like a president you didn't vote for is still your president and you can't do anything about it. What, you mean all those wonderful, kind-hearted liberals like George Soros, Al Gore, Matt Damon, Janeane Garofolo, Sean Penn, Susan Sarandon and John Kerry wouldn't donate their money to finance these wonderful programs that help the poor and downtrodden that they claim to care so much about?

Exactly!

(Sometimes the best way to react to a rhetorical question is to answer it. )

I am a public school teacher.  I don't work for a private corporation.  I guarantee you that I have to jump through more hoops than the average employee.  We are told how to do our jobs by politicians and bureaucrats who, despite what they say, have no tangible stake in what goes on in our classrooms.  We have to satisfy five (now six) standards, earn CEUs to keep a license current, take college courses, stay after hours for meetings, conferences, clubs, etc., deal with the most egregiously disrespectful generation imaginable, administer tests that take four hours straight (with no bathroom break sometimes), deal with supply shortages or provide our own stuff out of pocket, and break up fights.

But I do all this not just for a paycheck- I love showing a student that he can be so much more than he is.  I love calling a parent, hearing the terror in her voice ("God, what did Kyle do now?"), and getting to say, "Ma'am, I just wanted to let you know that your stepson got the second highest grade on a test in his class.  I can see he really tried."  I genuinely enjoy the people with whom I work, from the janitorial staff to the administrators. 

Sure, I need the paycheck each month.  I have bills.  But getting that money for doing all that gives me a sense of pride: I earned it.  If I just got "taken care of" month after month, I would be less free, not more.

To hear some of you talk about how awful it is to work 40 hours for the staples of life, I'm thinking "Does anyone work for a company because they believe in the company and have faith in the owners anymore?  Does anyone work a job because they enjoy doing it and it offers some fulfillment?  Does anyone perform a task because they are excellent at it?"  In theory, I don't even believe in the public education system, yet here I am.  If they're going to have public ed, they might as well have me in it, knowing at least one classroom is handled by someone who gives a damn about kids, even if those kids couldn't give one volcanic sh*t about him.

If being a respectful, dependable, and positive employee is too much to ask for in the private sector, then pack your things and let someone more grateful have the position.  If you hate corporations and their demands, then go become a teacher and see how you like working for the public.


Edited by Epignosis - October 14 2012 at 18:06

akamaisondufromage wrote: thellama73 wrote: akamaisondufromage wrote: thellama73 wrote: akamaisondufromage wrote: I guess her name is Worker cos in your world that's all she is.  That's not how names work. If a person is named Smith is does not mean they are only useful as a smith. It's just a name.   Well that was how names worked when Mr Smith first got his family name.  So Smith was a smith.  Baker was a baker.   Lonely is not a name.  Its only a name in your scenario so you must have called the victim that for a reason.  What do you mean Lonely is not a name? Anything can be a name. My sister just named her daughter Echo, for God's sake! It's not because she says everything twice, she just likes the sound of it.   OK so how many Lonelys do you know?

How many Echos do you know?

HarbouringTheSoul wrote: The more important question is: Why are you two even having this completely pointless discussion?

'
Oh, like the political discussion is so worthwhile and insightful?

AHEM!

Alitare wrote: AHEM!

 

I think it was Bukowski said, quite succinctly, that 'Politics is like trying to screw a cat in the ass'. Or maybe it was somethin' about f**kin' a hooker in a grimy alley soaked in gin and tobacco smoke.

Epignosis wrote: I am a public school teacher.  I don't work for a private corporation.  I guarantee you that I have to jump through more hoops than the average employee.  We are told how to do our jobs by politicians and bureaucrats who, despite what they say, have no tangible stake in what goes on in our classrooms.  We have to satisfy five (now six) standards, earn CEUs to keep a license current, take college courses, stay after hours for meetings, conferences, clubs, etc., deal with the most egregiously disrespectful generation imaginable, administer tests that take four hours straight (with no bathroom break sometimes), deal with supply shortages or provide our own stuff out of pocket, and break up fights. But I do all this not just for a paycheck- I love showing a student that he can be so much more than he is.  I love calling a parent, hearing the terror in her voice ("God, what did Kyle do now?"), and getting to say, "Ma'am, I just wanted to let you know that your stepson got the second highest grade on a test in his class.  I can see he really tried."  I genuinely enjoy the people with whom I work, from the janitorial staff to the administrators.  Sure, I need the paycheck each month.  I have bills.  But getting that money for doing all that gives me a sense of pride: I earned it.  If I just got "taken care of" month after month, I would be less free, not more. To hear some of you talk about how awful it is to work 40 hours for the staples of life, I'm thinking "Does anyone work for a company because they believe in the company and have faith in the owners anymore?  Does anyone work a job because they enjoy doing it and it offers some fulfillment?  Does anyone perform a task because they are excellent at it?"  In theory, I don't even believe in the public education system, yet here I am.  If they're going to have public ed, they might as well have me in it, knowing at least one classroom is handled by someone who gives a damn about kids, even if those kids couldn't give one volcanic sh*t about him. If being a respectful, dependable, and positive employee is too much to ask for in the private sector, then pack your things and let someone more grateful have the position.  If you hate corporations and their demands, then go become a teacher and see how you like working for the public.

 I'll bet in time some of those kids will remember you as a teacher who cared. I worked a job I cared about and tried to do it to the best of my ability. I got paid for what i did.....by the piece.....There was no free ride, you either produced or you did not get paid. I truly enjoyed being in the woods every day and doing a job where though you worked for a company you were really your own boss.

Epignosis wrote: If being a respectful, dependable, and positive employee is too much to ask for in the private sector, then pack your things and let someone more grateful have the position.  If you hate corporations and their demands, then go become a teacher and see how you like working for the public.

As long as I'm treated with respect, I return the respect.  I am always dependable.  I've missed two days in the last two years, due only to food poisoning.  I do my job and I do it with a smile.  If that's not enough for an employer than that's too bad.  And I really don't mind trading 40 hours of my time in order for enough money to survive and have a few creature comforts.  But when they poke their nose into my personal business, or when they demand extremely long hours or want to pay low wages, then no, I'm not going to kiss someone's behind for a piece of....job.