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Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:41
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
What? How does the observation that every decision has a cost that must be weighed against the benefit have anything to do with nationalism? For someone who prides himself on his ability to communicate, you sure seem to be having a hard time understand what I am saying.
Nationalism is a control mechanism, often political and always economic. If you cannot see the historical parallels, I am truly puzzled. Austerity measures, budgetary restrictions, cutting waste, creating jobs and rounding up dissidents. Its called a war economy, the single most rapid and successful form of economic revival ever. There are enough foreign and domestic examples of this phenomenon and not seeing linkage here is bizarre. Do not be tempted to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing . I am not an antagonistic fellow at all, ask around! I have a
gentle reputation for being effusively polite and well-behaved on this site. On
occasion, I have been insulted for a variety of my views (mostly political,
historical and religious). How can I be bigoted, shortsighted and monolithic if
I speak 7 languages, learnt 4 major religions and have traveled extensively?
Americans cannot stand anyone non-Americans criticizing anything about the USA, yet there
are fundamental rights to free speech that go beyond liberty, freedom and the
pursuit of happiness. So why cannot your good caring neighbors opine on what we
see as bizarre , like medieval gun laws, oddball politicians and fluttering position in education (32 in the world?). There are laws in some
states that are simply dinosaurish and incomprehensible to modern thinking
people. That being said America encapsulates all that is possible in life and would be first to fight for its survival and improving its tarnished image.
Not a single word of this post makes the slightest bit of sense. If you conflate rational decision making with nationalism and war, then there is simply no reasoning with you. Someone else will have to try.
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:47
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
What? How does the observation that every decision has a cost that must be weighed against the benefit have anything to do with nationalism? For someone who prides himself on his ability to communicate, you sure seem to be having a hard time understand what I am saying.
Nationalism is a control mechanism, often political and always economic. If you cannot see the historical parallels, I am truly puzzled. Austerity measures, budgetary restrictions, cutting waste, creating jobs and rounding up dissidents. Its called a war economy, the single most rapid and successful form of economic revival ever. There are enough foreign and domestic examples of this phenomenon and not seeing linkage here is bizarre. Do not be tempted to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing . I am not an antagonistic fellow at all, ask around! I have a
gentle reputation for being effusively polite and well-behaved on this site. On
occasion, I have been insulted for a variety of my views (mostly political,
historical and religious). How can I be bigoted, shortsighted and monolithic if
I speak 7 languages, learnt 4 major religions and have traveled extensively?
Americans cannot stand anyone non-Americans criticizing anything about the USA, yet there
are fundamental rights to free speech that go beyond liberty, freedom and the
pursuit of happiness. So why cannot your good caring neighbors opine on what we
see as bizarre , like medieval gun laws, oddball politicians and fluttering position in education (32 in the world?). There are laws in some
states that are simply dinosaurish and incomprehensible to modern thinking
people. That being said America encapsulates all that is possible in life and would be first to fight for its survival and improving its tarnished image.
Not a single word of this post makes the slightest bit of sense. If you conflate rational decision making with nationalism and war, then there is simply no reasoning with you. Someone else will have to try.
Nah! Don't bother I am just an ass! I am just plum Intellectually incapable of communicating with anyone intelligent.
Like someone who says "I got more value by not learning it" . A scholarly statement if I ever heard one. Go save the world , man ! We need more superheroes like the llamaman.
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
Posted: September 24 2012 at 23:54
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
What? How does the observation that every decision has a cost that must be weighed against the benefit have anything to do with nationalism? For someone who prides himself on his ability to communicate, you sure seem to be having a hard time understand what I am saying.
Nationalism is a control mechanism, often political and always economic. If you cannot see the historical parallels, I am truly puzzled. Austerity measures, budgetary restrictions, cutting waste, creating jobs and rounding up dissidents. Its called a war economy, the single most rapid and successful form of economic revival ever. There are enough foreign and domestic examples of this phenomenon and not seeing linkage here is bizarre. Do not be tempted to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing . I am not an antagonistic fellow at all, ask around! I have a
gentle reputation for being effusively polite and well-behaved on this site. On
occasion, I have been insulted for a variety of my views (mostly political,
historical and religious). How can I be bigoted, shortsighted and monolithic if
I speak 7 languages, learnt 4 major religions and have traveled extensively?
Americans cannot stand anyone non-Americans criticizing anything about the USA, yet there
are fundamental rights to free speech that go beyond liberty, freedom and the
pursuit of happiness. So why cannot your good caring neighbors opine on what we
see as bizarre , like medieval gun laws, oddball politicians and fluttering position in education (32 in the world?). There are laws in some
states that are simply dinosaurish and incomprehensible to modern thinking
people. That being said America encapsulates all that is possible in life and would be first to fight for its survival and improving its tarnished image.
Not a single word of this post makes the slightest bit of sense. If you conflate rational decision making with nationalism and war, then there is simply no reasoning with you. Someone else will have to try.
I'll get to it after I re-read that paragraph for the 4th time.
Stereotypical lover of the various Anglo accents. British, Scottish, Aussie, Kiwi all pretty great.
As for the American ones, the Bostonian one is nice though I've never heard one person speak that way in real life. And I do mean the posh kind, not the working class Bostonian that sounds like a slow thug
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:08
stonebeard wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
What? How does the observation that every decision has a cost that must be weighed against the benefit have anything to do with nationalism? For someone who prides himself on his ability to communicate, you sure seem to be having a hard time understand what I am saying.
Nationalism is a control mechanism, often political and always economic. If you cannot see the historical parallels, I am truly puzzled. Austerity measures, budgetary restrictions, cutting waste, creating jobs and rounding up dissidents. Its called a war economy, the single most rapid and successful form of economic revival ever. There are enough foreign and domestic examples of this phenomenon and not seeing linkage here is bizarre. Do not be tempted to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing . I am not an antagonistic fellow at all, ask around! I have a
gentle reputation for being effusively polite and well-behaved on this site. On
occasion, I have been insulted for a variety of my views (mostly political,
historical and religious). How can I be bigoted, shortsighted and monolithic if
I speak 7 languages, learnt 4 major religions and have traveled extensively?
Americans cannot stand anyone non-Americans criticizing anything about the USA, yet there
are fundamental rights to free speech that go beyond liberty, freedom and the
pursuit of happiness. So why cannot your good caring neighbors opine on what we
see as bizarre , like medieval gun laws, oddball politicians and fluttering position in education (32 in the world?). There are laws in some
states that are simply dinosaurish and incomprehensible to modern thinking
people. That being said America encapsulates all that is possible in life and would be first to fight for its survival and improving its tarnished image.
Not a single word of this post makes the slightest bit of sense. If you conflate rational decision making with nationalism and war, then there is simply no reasoning with you. Someone else will have to try.
I'll get to it after I re-read that paragraph for the 4th time.
All gibberish? Not a single word makes sense? Should i translate it for you in a language of your choice, like English, perhaps ? You should try my 600 or so reviews on PA! Now that's serious verbal diarrhea. You two guys accuse me of writing in English like some lonesome Kirghiz tribesman is pretty hilarious but sort of expected under the circumstances. .....No mas , por favor.
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:17
So one is not a bigot only when one knows 7 languages and has travelled a lot?
That paragraph makes little sense. Maybe translated to Cantonese its value will be revealed. I still fail to see why is it so impossible to understand that there is not always a need to learn other languages.
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:34
The T wrote:
So one is not a bigot only when one knows 7 languages and has travelled a lot?
That paragraph makes little sense. Maybe translated to Cantonese its value will be revealed. I still fail to see why is it so impossible to understand that there is not always a need to learn other languages.
That's right! How would you possibly know or judge my level of bigotry? Gracias, querido Teodoro, tu eres muy buena gente!
Truth is I am only bigoted towards small-minded people who glorify themselves in being sarcastic, senselessly critical and downright nasty. Like you three gloriously erudite geniuses.
The paragraph makes sense within the previous context, it has no grammatical errors and stays strictly within the confines of nationalism and economic cost and benefits. It also expresses my general attitude towards forum contributors as well . Go ahead and translate it into Cantonese but I doubt you would understand any better.
But I could do it in espanol for you if you wish!
Yeah, learn one first....... And you say I cannot write?
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Joined: January 30 2012
Location: UT, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 374
Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:40
I've always loved different accents having grown up in Utah but having a mother from Scotland. Growing up spending most of my time with my mother and the rest with people with distinct Utah accents (and having a deeper voice than most of the people I know) has kind of made my accent a bit weird though. Like what I would imagine Kelsey Grammer would sound like if he grew up in Nebraska.
Edited by Master of Time - September 25 2012 at 00:41
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:44
tszirmay wrote:
stonebeard wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
tszirmay wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
What? How does the observation that every decision has a cost that must be weighed against the benefit have anything to do with nationalism? For someone who prides himself on his ability to communicate, you sure seem to be having a hard time understand what I am saying.
Nationalism is a control mechanism, often political and always economic. If you cannot see the historical parallels, I am truly puzzled. Austerity measures, budgetary restrictions, cutting waste, creating jobs and rounding up dissidents. Its called a war economy, the single most rapid and successful form of economic revival ever. There are enough foreign and domestic examples of this phenomenon and not seeing linkage here is bizarre. Do not be tempted to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing . I am not an antagonistic fellow at all, ask around! I have a
gentle reputation for being effusively polite and well-behaved on this site. On
occasion, I have been insulted for a variety of my views (mostly political,
historical and religious). How can I be bigoted, shortsighted and monolithic if
I speak 7 languages, learnt 4 major religions and have traveled extensively?
Americans cannot stand anyone non-Americans criticizing anything about the USA, yet there
are fundamental rights to free speech that go beyond liberty, freedom and the
pursuit of happiness. So why cannot your good caring neighbors opine on what we
see as bizarre , like medieval gun laws, oddball politicians and fluttering position in education (32 in the world?). There are laws in some
states that are simply dinosaurish and incomprehensible to modern thinking
people. That being said America encapsulates all that is possible in life and would be first to fight for its survival and improving its tarnished image.
Not a single word of this post makes the slightest bit of sense. If you conflate rational decision making with nationalism and war, then there is simply no reasoning with you. Someone else will have to try.
I'll get to it after I re-read that paragraph for the 4th time.
All gibberish? Not a single word makes sense? Should i translate it for you in a language of your choice, like English, perhaps ? You should try my 600 or so reviews on PA! Now that's serious verbal diarrhea. You two guys accuse me of writing in English like some lonesome Kirghiz tribesman is pretty hilarious but sort of expected under the circumstances. .....No mas , por favor.
All in all, I commend you for your progress in knowing 7 languages. Your English is much better than my Spanish. However, three separate people here are telling you your arguments are not making much sense. I guess you could try to restate them, or you could continue lashing out and calling people small minded.
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
Posted: September 25 2012 at 00:54
No I actually prefer not to! There is always a third choice! I prefer to sticking to writing reviews because the last time I got involved in a PA general discussion it ended in misery. You gentlemen do not like being challenged by anyone on anything. I simply said that I objected to the sentence "I got more value by NOT learning it" and that escalated into a politico-economic argument on nationalism which in essence seeks to protect one culture/one language. What the f*** is wrong with that? It doesn't make sense to you? If you look at the paragraph out of context, obviously it looks bizarre, like a sound bite manipulated by editing. You guys like to slice and dice and get off on insulting my comments. But I have never been accused of being incoherent by anyone before in the past 56 years , least of all some invisible judgelings who power trip online.
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26138
Posted: September 25 2012 at 06:54
I've lived in "The South" for about half my life, though my accent and 'heritage' comes more from the American Midwest (Pennsylvania, Ohio), I talk slowly and enunciate each syllable (I even semi-jokingly say "diaper" as three syllables). The Southern accent has several variants, but in general there seems to be an "aristocratic" version (think "Steel Magnolias" the movie) and a "redneck" version (think Larry the Cable Guy, or "Mater" in the Cars movie). Somewhere in between is the New Orleans (or "Nawlins" as they say) version, which incorporates some French and some African American in there too. People who don't otherwise have an accent will sometimes drift into the redneck version when they want to sound earthy and real, I resist that urge myself. 20 years in Atlanta and I have still never said "y'all".
One of my pet peeves is actors and actresses that play Southern characters, but they do a real heavy-handed take on the accent, just overdoing it where they should be more subtle. The unintended consequence of this is to paint Southern people as rather two-dimensional, which isn't really fair or accurate (well not usually anyway). Come to think of it, world-class actor Tom Hanks was guilty of this in "Forrest Gump". I guess there are people that talk with that much of an exaggerated accent, but it's painful for me to hear an actor execute it.
(edit: changed name of movie from "Fried Green Tomatoes" to "Steel Magnolias". I meant the latter but got them mixed up)
Edited by HolyMoly - September 25 2012 at 08:04
My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
Posted: September 25 2012 at 06:55
tszirmay wrote:
No I actually prefer not to! There is always a third choice! I prefer to sticking to writing reviews because the last time I got involved in a PA general discussion it ended in misery. You gentlemen do not like being challenged by anyone on anything. I simply said that I objected to the sentence "I got more value by NOT learning it" and that escalated into a politico-economic argument on nationalism which in essence seeks to protect one culture/one language. What the f*** is wrong with that? It doesn't make sense to you? If you look at the paragraph out of context, obviously it looks bizarre, like a sound bite manipulated by editing. You guys like to slice and dice and get off on insulting my comments. But I have never been accused of being incoherent by anyone before in the past 56 years , least of all some invisible judgelings who power trip online.
Actually, I do enjoy being challenged, and I have tried to maintain a level of civil discourse even though you make it difficult to do so.
You object to the idea that it's possible to get more value by not learning a language. Do you know Cornish? If not, why not? I suspect it's because you have better things to do with your time, such as sleep and eat and work for a living, and that Cornish, while interesting and rewarding to learn, has little practical value for you.
In this case, you get more value by not learning Cornish, because of the more productive ways you can use your time. No one can know everything, and we choose to learn the things we think will be most rewarding.
Your paragraph was grammatically correct, and it is not the language that was confusing, but the content. You injected nationalism into a debate that is purely about time use, and I don't see how your mind made such a connection.
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: September 25 2012 at 07:02
Hi. Looks like I missed a pointless altercation. I'm feeling a little miffed you chaps had a barny and didn't invite me along, most unsporting of you.
I love accents - I'm not very fond of my own and many people think it is cockney, which it isn't - it's Essex Estuary English with a hint of Bedfordian drawl, I dislike that I cannot say "bottle" or "model" without sounding thick and hate having to say my surname over the phone because I cannot pronounce it 'proplerly', which usually results in some amusingly addressed mail arriving on my door-mat in the following weeks.
I was taught French for five years at school and I'm dreadful at it - I cannot speak French to save my life (m'aider!) - I did get to be pretty good at congugating irregular verbs and did learn what the plu-perfect tense is (both are invaluable in conversational small-talk), but plonk me in a Parisian boulangerie with a pocket full of Euro's and I will be reduced to caveman grunts and wild (yet hopefully international) gesticulation, mime and pointing - I cannot even pronounce croissant in that situtation, I just clam-up eventhough I can pronounce it pefectly (kwah-sahnt) in England. The problem is the accent - to pronounce it properly I have to adopt a French accent - if I use an English accent I end up sounding like an American and will have to pronounce that damn "r" - Krass-ahnt ...ew-yeuk! - and that's the problem - to me it sounds like I'm taking the piss out of their accent - I may just as well be sticking out my bottom lip and shrugging my shoulders (á la Peter Sellers) to get just the right inflection if it wasn't such a crass caricature that only wearing a horizontally stripped t-shirt and beret and carrying a string of onions could possibly make any worse. And strange as it may seem, all that implied stereotype imagery puts me off even attempting to say kwah-sahnt to a French shop keeper. A further illustration of this (just to show it's not a purely English or British hang-up) occured in Munich in 1984 when I was on a training course - after classes one evening a group of us desended on local bar and imbibed several strong German beers, since we were an mutlinational bunch (German, Dutch, Austrian, French and Italian) English was the common language and soon the conversation came around to accents - one of the German guys came from Hamburg and his accent was quite strong and difficult to follow - he made a joke about how the English sound to him (something about heisse kartoffels - the details are lost - I was quite drunk at the time) and gave us an illustration, which while amusing to all was strangley easier to follow - he later appologised profusely that he dared using an English accent in front of an Englishman.
Anyway, accents and English actors - one that amused me was Frasier - neither of the two English actors in that series used their natural born accents, even the one playing an English character. American/Canadian actors doing English accents are fun too - Cannoe Reeves as Jonathan Harker was "interesting" in a "you have to cover your ears it's so bad but if you did that you wouldn't hear it so you cover your eyes instead" kind of way and Depp is always entertaining even if you can't actually place his accent anywhere on a map - James Marsters as Spike in Buffy was entertaining and his attempt at an American doing an impression of an Englishman doing an American accent was funny.
Economics education in schools - hell yes. Back in the 60s in the UK we had the duodecimal money system, schools had no choice but to teach us about "money" but now it's all decimal (and everyone understands decimals right?) they don't have to teach it - treating "money" as just "mathematics is okay up to a point, but it doesn't teach you anything of cost and value, balances and cash-flow - the examples they had to use to teach us pounds-shillings-and-pence had to be practical examples so we covered all those things. Over the past 30 years I've employed lots of technically and mathematically astute young engineers who have been hopeless with money, even especially those who survived 4 years at University on a student loan, and get themselves worked into a tiz over debt and credit-card repayments, rent, cost of fuel/food/etc. and that affects their work and that affects me. So I try to explain to them about budgeting and cash-flow and money-management, and I try to get them to arrange an interview with their bank manager or their bank's financial adviser, and when that fails I arrange it for them, and when that fails I put them in my car and drive them down to their bank and wait for them until they've had the interview. Bright people can be quite odd when money is involved. It seems incongruous to me that we disptach kids off to University and saddle them with 3 or 4 years of debt and student loans without equiping them the tools and knowhow to manage it - I did hear in the TV the otehr week that some schools are offering loan-management lectures as an optional extra ... cynically that will be 45 minutes of how to get the best deal on your credit card.
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
Posted: September 25 2012 at 07:09
I bet Dean speaks Cornish.
Dean wrote:
The problem is the accent - to pronounce it properly I have to adopt a French accent - if I use an English accent I end up sounding like an American and will have to pronouince that damn "r" - Krass-ahnt ...ew-yeuk! - and that's the problem - to me it sounds like I'm taking the piss out of their accent - I may just as well be sticking out my bottom lip and shrugging my shoulders (á la Peter Sellers) to get just the right inflection if it wasn't such a crass caricature that only wearing a horizontally stripped t-shirt and beret and carrying a string of onions could possibly make any worse.
Oddly, it's been my experience that adopting as over-the-top and stereotypical an accent as possible has won me praise for sounding naturalistic in the language classes I've taken. Maybe those stereotypes exist for a reason.
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tszirmay wrote:
