Joined: August 15 2011
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 320
Posted: April 27 2012 at 05:01
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
DiamondDog wrote:
Sorry, I know you mean well, but I dont agree with your point of view. For instance, In the example of Moraz, only Davison holds it together in terms acceptable to me. I think you're listening purely to the notes and techniques without an understanding of what rock really is. Then again, we all have your own opinions to which we are indeed entitled.
Of course we can disagree, it's healthy for a forum (And fun for those of us who like a good debate)..
But your comment of Refugee left me cold
According to every piece of literature and almost every review of the album, describes the band as keyboard oriented and praises the work of Patrick Moraz, combining Rock, Classical and Jazz (Remember that Moraz made his early career as Jazz player rather than as Classical musician) with brilliance, the only weak point of Refugee were the terrible vocals
Now, if you have to choose one early Yes album with lesser classical influence, you have to go with Relayer, Moraz is absolutely different to Wakeman in every sense, both are great, buit Moraz is much more aggressive and of course Jazz Rock oriented.
I never cared for the Moody Blues, because of the poppy sound, but things changed in the fantastic "Long Distance Voyager", all the themes (except "Taking Out of the Turn") are much more rewarding and Rock oriented than anything done with Pinder.
Patrick Moraz gave freshness to every band he joined, as a fact he changed the sound and style, listen him in Mainhorse (described as a combination between Deep Purple and Atomic Rooster), and tell me if the guy can't rock.
BTW: Haven't heard your opinion about Par Lindh or Jurgen Fritz, normally described as members of the school of Emerson and as clones by the mot radical ELP fans.
Just in case you never heard him, this is the guy who studied Classical Music in a Conservatory, went for perfection with almost 30 teachers and toured as a Classical pianist and organist:
Now tell me that he can't Rock.
Iván
OK, he cant rock. But seriously, from my point of view you're looking in the wrong direction. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Over and Out.
Joined: August 15 2011
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 320
Posted: April 27 2012 at 11:03
I'm trying to leave it there, for we are poles apart. It seems to me that your symphonic/classical take on everything has led you to confuse swing with rock. Your taste in music is excellent, but you're definitely not versed in rock dynamics. And that's my final word.
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
Posted: April 27 2012 at 11:43
DiamondDog wrote:
I'm trying to leave it there, for we are poles apart. It seems to me that your symphonic/classical take on everything has led you to confuse swing with rock. Your taste in music is excellent, but you're definitely not versed in rock dynamics. And that's my final word.
Please, pal, before I knew what prog was, I was listening Classic Rock bands as Grand Funk Railroad, Mountain, Steppenwolf, BTO, The Who and some Prog related Rock bands like Uriah Heep and Deep Purple.
Yes, I love Symphonic, but I'm as interested in Psychedelia and early Rock
You have claimed that:
Rick Wakeman is "Certainly the most classically trained of the contemporary keyboard players" This was proven wrong by with arguments and examples.
Then you said that guys like Par Lindh, Patrick Moraz and Jurgen Fritz "
need the full support of guitars and the texture of a full band to be of use at all. " Proved wrong, the three played in power trios without guitars, based almost exclusively in bass, percussion and keyboards. You changed the subject again
Then ytou claimed that this guys I mentioned are just "
luxury players, decorating the existing tapestries of music rather than creating them or carrying the band as the central force "...Obviously Par Lindh is the central force of Par Lindh Project , and if you ever heard Triumvirat, you must admit that Jürgen Fritz is the ONLY composer and central force in a keyboard oriented band, the same can be said about Moraz in Refugee or Mainhorse, and Nocenzzi along with Francesco di Giacomo, are the main forces of BMS.
Then you claimed that Emerson can Rock, but Par Lindh (The closer you can get to Emerson in style) can't, again you kicked the board and replied "he cant rock." without giving a single argument to support your claim
Now your final response is "I understand Rock you don't"
Just think something, Progressive Rock, even Symphonic is not classical music, it's Rock, if you don't understand Rock you don't understand Progressive Rock.
Joined: September 29 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 741
Posted: May 08 2012 at 19:19
He's one of my favorite keyboard player and composer of all time. This guy knows how to play music. He's got musical knowledge, technical abilities and plenty of great original ideas.
La victoire est éphémère mais la gloire est éternelle!
Joined: August 17 2011
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 129
Posted: May 15 2012 at 03:47
mmmm, I always get riled when Ritchie is compared to these two greats. He was the first lead keyboard guy, but does that mean he was that great? Good but not great IMO.
Joined: February 17 2009
Location: Telford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 933
Posted: August 22 2012 at 15:35
Although Rick Wakeman is one of the architects of Prog, many people (including ardent Yes fans) are only familiar with a small number of his solo albums (Journey, Six Wives, King Arthur, Criminal Record). A great shame - because out of the 80+ studio albums he has recorded there are many that are well worth exploring. He has also released some brilliant live albums. I am currently listening to this:
It is an excellent album!
Haiku
Writing a poem
With seventeen syllables
Is very diffic....
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