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Textbook 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
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Points: 3281
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 Posted: April 18 2012 at 23:34 |
Ivan: *sigh* Ivan, when exactly did I give you the impression that I thought 30 million Peruvians were listening to me? This is an exchange of ideas on the internet. The existence of places where some of these views are not widely held is not an objection to those views. I'm sure this won't be taken well but I mean it as advice: you really do sulk a lot and it doesn't help your self-expression.
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Triceratopsoil
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Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
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Points: 18016
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 23:32 |
 Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
the 30 millions of Peruvians give a rat's ass about what Textbook thinks. |
I lol'd sup, Peru?
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 23:30 |
Textbook wrote:
Epig: The word homophobe is used in current society to mean someone who dislikes gay people. That is a fact and that is the end of the conversation. I am fully aware of what homo and phobe mean, being part of any "my first Greek root words" kit. But as I said to Ivan when he tried to tell us about the etymology of matrimony, I don't really give a rat's ass. The usage of words changes over time, have a look at "awful". I don't think you really are this silly but your little attempt to get one over on me is making you look a bit of a fool in my opinion, which is uncharacteristic of you (and I don't say that about many theists.) |
Words change, institutions only when the majority of people in a determined country believe it's necessary.
We are not USA, we have our own law our own institutions and our own reality, we don't believe gay marriage is necessary.
Our concept of marriage is the union of a man and a woman, and our laws are the expression of our own culture even if influenced by another system, so if you don't accept it, the 30 millions of Peruvians give a rat's ass about what Textbook thinks.
Iván
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 22:44 |
CCVP: "Western atheism is merely anti-christianity." Absolute bullsh*t. Atheists are incredibly concerned with Islam and leading atheist Sam Harris has come under fire for giving Buddhism/Jainism a pass for being "nice" when they have their own problems like everything else. There has also been a rise in coverage of the Judaist extremists, the haredim, lately and they are a very disturbing bunch. You appear to be criticising people for chiefly reacting to the most immediate threat, which is just... politeness fails me.
Edited by Textbook - April 18 2012 at 22:55
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 22:08 |
Epignosis wrote:
Textbook wrote:
You have bored me, congratulations. |
I hope not, because that could be construed as gay. 
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Don't worry, gay is the new straight.
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 22:07 |
Epignosis wrote:
CCVP wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Textbook wrote:
Epig: Note that I have never claimed to be tolerant. I'm not a tolerant person. I am intolerant of religion. But homosexuals don't mess up the world the way religion does. Tolerance is a pretty stupid concept actually. What it means is that you allow something you think is harmful to continue unchallenged. This is actually terrible behaviour. If it's not actually harmful, then what are you tolerating? Exactly. You have to believe it's a bad thing in order to tolerate it, but if it's really a bad thing, you should be acting against it. So tolerance = bs. Wait a second, did I just give license to homophobes to persecute homosexuals? Almost, except the problem with homophobes is that their belief that homosexuality is harmful is false, based on bad information and misconceptions. See also racists, sexists, theists, etc. How do I prove that their information is false and mine is correct? Well, I don't. All I can tell you is that that's the conclusion I've come to based on my experience in the world. I could be wrong but I have no reason as yet to suppose I am so until that changes, these are the beliefs I'm hold. |
So are you theophobic?
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That's called atheism/anti-Christianity. |
No, that describes someone who fears a god or gods.
Theos = god
phobos = fear
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Textbook wrote:
Also CCVP to say atheism=theophobia is an insult to all the atheists here on PA who are so much more well behaved and respectful than me ;) Not every atheist is PZ Myers. Many are quite unenthusiastic about going out to attack religion.
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Answering to you both, fear is not only the shown/manifested by the "traditional" way, which is they one you might be thinking of according to your responses. Fears and phobias have far reaching consequences in one's mind, behavior and so one, which could be manifested as rejecting completely something to the point of denying it, which is the whole point of atheism.
And as for the anti-christianity thing, come on guys, we (or at least every outspoken atheist on PA) are in the Western world. Is there any OTHER big religion besides Christianity, more specifically the evangelical, neo-pentecostal and Roman Catholic? Really? Do you even care about the ridiculous feudal system Buddhist are trying to re-install in Tibet or the disgraceful things done everyday in the name of the Merciful Prophet Mohamed? And even if you occasionally do, does that effectively change your lives in any way to the point that you stop believing and following every and all kind of religion? Western "atheism" is merely anti-christianity.
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Epignosis
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 21:32 |
Textbook wrote:
You have bored me, congratulations. |
I hope not, because that could be construed as gay.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 21:30 |
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You have bored me, congratulations.
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Epignosis
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Joined: December 30 2007
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 21:29 |
Textbook wrote:
Epig: The word homophobe is used in current society to mean someone who dislikes gay people. That is a fact and that is the end of the conversation. I am fully aware of what homo and phobe mean, being part of any "my first Greek root words" kit. But as I said to Ivan when he tried to tell us about the etymology of matrimony, I don't really give a rat's ass. The usage of words changes over time, have a look at "awful". I don't think you really are this silly but your little attempt to get one over on me is making you look a bit of a fool in my opinion, which is uncharacteristic of you (and I don't say that about many theists.) |
That you allow popularity to determine what is accurate says enough.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 21:26 |
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Epig: The word homophobe is used in current society to mean someone who dislikes gay people. That is a fact and that is the end of the conversation. I am fully aware of what homo and phobe mean, being part of any "my first Greek root words" kit. But as I said to Ivan when he tried to tell us about the etymology of matrimony, I don't really give a rat's ass. The usage of words changes over time, have a look at "awful". I don't think you really are this silly but your little attempt to get one over on me is making you look a bit of a fool in my opinion, which is uncharacteristic of you (and I don't say that about many theists.)
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Epignosis
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Joined: December 30 2007
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 21:14 |
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 21:10 |
Textbook wrote:
Equality: I'm writing posts on the internet, not presenting a thesis. Obviously I distinguish between Islam and Jainism for example. In general, I am opposed to religion. I do not think EVERY RELIGIOUS THING EVER IS TERRIBLE, but I'm not going to go through ennumerating everything good and everything bad and no one wants me to do that anyway because all it will be is my own subjective imperfect judgments based on what information I've been exposed to. |
I think it's more useful to focus on specific aspects of some religions you find distasteful than to make blanket statements. It's just my personal opinion.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 21:06 |
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Epig: Who said popularity decided what we should "do"? I said popularity decides what a word signifies. Now I can be independent of that decision and decide for myself that "fish" means "cow" but it would be detrimental to my ability to communicate. But that's linguistics. In determining spiritual truths I can be independent of the popular consensus without making life unliveable.
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Epignosis
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Joined: December 30 2007
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 21:04 |
CCVP wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Textbook wrote:
Epig: Note that I have never claimed to be tolerant. I'm not a tolerant person. I am intolerant of religion. But homosexuals don't mess up the world the way religion does. Tolerance is a pretty stupid concept actually. What it means is that you allow something you think is harmful to continue unchallenged. This is actually terrible behaviour. If it's not actually harmful, then what are you tolerating? Exactly. You have to believe it's a bad thing in order to tolerate it, but if it's really a bad thing, you should be acting against it. So tolerance = bs. Wait a second, did I just give license to homophobes to persecute homosexuals? Almost, except the problem with homophobes is that their belief that homosexuality is harmful is false, based on bad information and misconceptions. See also racists, sexists, theists, etc. How do I prove that their information is false and mine is correct? Well, I don't. All I can tell you is that that's the conclusion I've come to based on my experience in the world. I could be wrong but I have no reason as yet to suppose I am so until that changes, these are the beliefs I'm hold. |
So are you theophobic?
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That's called atheism/anti-Christianity. |
No, that describes someone who fears a god or gods.
Theos = god
phobos = fear
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 21:04 |
I'm not anti-Christian, I'm anti-religion. You're not going to catch me endorsing other faiths. I find the other mainstream faiths to have less threatening influence than Christianity and Islam, but they all have their dangerous little extremes and they're all made up without foundation in fact and aren't a good basis for living life. Also CCVP to say atheism=theophobia is an insult to all the atheists here on PA who are so much more well behaved and respectful than me ;) Not every atheist is PZ Myers. Many are quite unenthusiastic about going out to attack religion.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
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Points: 32524
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 21:03 |
Textbook wrote:
Epignosis: Alright so you feel that "your religion" is a good thing and I have the wrong information about it. And also, words mean whatever popular usage thinks they do.
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Popular usage does not have the ability of cogitation.
If popularity decided what we should do, then you sir, are a theist. Welcome brother.
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 15 2007
Location: Vitória, Brasil
Status: Offline
Points: 7971
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 20:59 |
Epignosis wrote:
Textbook wrote:
Epig: Note that I have never claimed to be tolerant. I'm not a tolerant person. I am intolerant of religion. But homosexuals don't mess up the world the way religion does. Tolerance is a pretty stupid concept actually. What it means is that you allow something you think is harmful to continue unchallenged. This is actually terrible behaviour. If it's not actually harmful, then what are you tolerating? Exactly. You have to believe it's a bad thing in order to tolerate it, but if it's really a bad thing, you should be acting against it. So tolerance = bs. Wait a second, did I just give license to homophobes to persecute homosexuals? Almost, except the problem with homophobes is that their belief that homosexuality is harmful is false, based on bad information and misconceptions. See also racists, sexists, theists, etc. How do I prove that their information is false and mine is correct? Well, I don't. All I can tell you is that that's the conclusion I've come to based on my experience in the world. I could be wrong but I have no reason as yet to suppose I am so until that changes, these are the beliefs I'm hold. |
So are you theophobic?
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That's called atheism/anti-Christianity.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 20:58 |
Equality: I'm writing posts on the internet, not presenting a thesis. Obviously I distinguish between Islam and Jainism for example. In general, I am opposed to religion. I do not think EVERY RELIGIOUS THING EVER IS TERRIBLE, but I'm not going to go through ennumerating everything good and everything bad and no one wants me to do that anyway because all it will be is my own subjective imperfect judgments based on what information I've been exposed to. Epignosis: Alright so you feel that "your religion" is a good thing and I have the wrong information about it. And also, words mean whatever popular usage thinks they do.
Edited by Textbook - April 18 2012 at 20:58
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
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Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
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Points: 32524
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 20:53 |
Textbook wrote:
In my own judgement no, but to your judgement I am. I am satisfied that religion is a bad thing and should be acted against. You are satisfied that religion is a good thing and so therefore anyone against it such as myself has the wrong information. |
The usual broad, useless, and distorting generalizations: I actually think most religion is false, although I don't feel the need to act against it like you do.
However, I do most ardently believe in accurate and helpful terminology. "Homophobe" would denote a person fears someone like himself or who fears objects that are similar to each other. Those people may exist, but I've never known any.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: April 18 2012 at 20:51 |
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Finding religion to be a wholesale bad thing discredits atheism I believe.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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