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Vompatti View Drop Down
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Points: 67407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 07:36
I think people should be allowed to make any kind of contracts with each other, regardless of their sex, as long as those contracts aren't against the law.
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Points: 3595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 07:54
It just so happens that certain same-sex contracts are against the law in some American states.
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Points: 67407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 07:57
So what's the problem? The law is the same for everyone.
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 08:12
And the law is always righteous?
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 08:31

We live in a time where some social conventions are becoming meaningless.

Marriage may be one of these. Aside from the legally codified ownership rights that are involved, I think everyone has different definitions of what Marriage means.

My now wife and I had been together 5 years, lived together 3 years, and had a child when we got married. It was basically a public celebration of something that already existed long before. And the legal aspects of rights and responsibilites for me as a father were much simpler after marriage.

In today's world, we're all navigating this stuff on a case by case basis. I don't see why any two people who wanted to make a long term committment (even two eunuchs) couldn't get legally married, adopt, etc. as long as they were of sound mind.

I don't know that our opinions of sexual behavior has to affect our opinions of families. As most married guys know, a few years after the kids and that's pretty low on the priority list in terms of what defines the relationship. After a certain age, a large proportion of marriages are pretty asexual.

Just my thoughts. Not that anyone cares.

 
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 67407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 08:43
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

And the law is always righteous?
Whether it is or isn't is irrelevant. The law is just a set of rules you generally try to follow to avoid any unnecessary trouble. There's no law that would be righteous for everyone.
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 08:56
^Ok. Now I better understand what you meant earlier
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Points: 22774 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 09:03
Many years ago, this conversation was "should black people have equal rights" and "should women have equal rights" and the obvious answer and (loosely) implemented solution was "yes, equal rights for all". It seems inevitable that homosexuals will have the same rights eventually because it only makes sense.
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Points: 24598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 09:28
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

All human beings have the same rights as individuals.

The government shouldn't have anything to do with marriage at all.

That sums it up.

Pretty much this. And what Teo said.

*Steps back out of the wildfire*
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Points: 14258 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 09:30
Maybe its best to remember

"Those without sin cast the first stone..."
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 10:15
Okay. Pass the bucket of stones.
 
What the hell does "sin" have to do with it?
 
What?
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Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 10:29
That redhead is making me feel kinda sinful...
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 67407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 10:39
Gay sex is a sin if it distracts you from contemplating God.

Gay marriage should be alright though.
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Points: 5208 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 10:54
Straight sex or autoeroticism would then also be a sin if it distracts you from contemplating God.
 
Or all of it could be sacred because sexual pleasure is one of the gifts of this mortal coil. And thanks to the Creator would be in order.
 
 
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Points: 3595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 11:03
^Doesn't that depend on WHO you're having sex with whether or not the Creator is deserving of adulation or derision? Although you did say 'pleasure', there. I suppose it answers itself.
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 12:59
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Okay. Pass the bucket of stones.
 
What the hell does "sin" have to do with it?
 

WTF Dean, it has everything to do with it. Just put your thinking keyboard wizard cape and you should be able to figure this one.
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:22
No, I agree with Dean.  Sin is meaningless in this.
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:43
Why I think sin is kind of meaningless in all this is because:

.....

It's their personal choice.
If it is a sin, frankly why do you care? People have pre martial sex ALL the time. Like....hundreds of millions of people over the world. Ironic since most Christians I've known (some quite devout) have had it and would try to get laid...which, just makes no sense to meConfused Anyway, what about that? And even if that was made illegal how are gunna stop it?

I'm no expert on the Bible but I'm guessing there are many other things that are sins that are legal...and people do all the time.

Now I may be wrong am just using what someone else has said, but apparently in Thomas Aquinas' "Summa Theologica" (I believe a major work in Christianity) he says that not all vices should be punishable, human law should forbid direct harm like murder and theft. Also that law cannot make a wicked person virtuous, only God can.

So if it's not causing harm to you, it should left be and even if you think it's wrong...law won't change that, only God could do so.

edit: of course I don't believe it's a sin but some religious background to back up our heathen argumentsTongue


Edited by JJLehto - April 16 2012 at 15:45
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:54
I find sin a weird concept anyway.  You commit a sin, God forgives you.  So it makes them worthless.  So you may as well break them.
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Points: 3281 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 16 2012 at 15:56
Sin has no place in this conversation. It presupposes a belief it seems most of us here don't have.
 
No one who can read should take something like the bible as any kind of moral authority. Remember the bible also says it's OK to murder your own child if they're unruly.
 
From Dueteronomy:
 
21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
 
So, in short, f**k the bible.
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