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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23104
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Posted: April 15 2012 at 13:16 |
Yes and no. Alan's thread is about gay people in regards to prog, but yeah people are kind of touching the same sort of areas(not a joke).
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: April 15 2012 at 13:52 |
Poligamy should be allowed too.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: April 15 2012 at 14:11 |
Easy Livin wrote:
Also, references to "The government" mean nothing in an international site such as this. Which spcific "government" is being referred to, or is it all governments?
| The only reason this thread even exists is because many governments interfere with people's ability to freely make contracts amongst themselves.
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RoyFairbank
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 07 2008
Location: Somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 1072
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Posted: April 15 2012 at 22:04 |
Epignosis wrote:
Easy Livin wrote:
Also, references to "The government" mean nothing in an international site such as this. Which spcific "government" is being referred to, or is it all governments?
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The only reason this thread even exists is because many governments interfere with people's ability to freely make contracts amongst themselves.
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Libertarian Roy (He Isn't Dead): Yeah, why outlaw prostitution, free contract! Why outlaw unlicensed medicine, free contract! Why outlaw sale of defective or dangerous products, free contract! Why outlaw insider trading... free contract! ...... Regular Roy: I think its less about government interfering with free contracts (is this what [usually pro-business] politicians think about when they are passing these restrictions?) then it is trying to make society conform to a certain cohesive and nationalistic status quo and creating political diversions to distract the population and attract their support whilst screwing them, creating an environment within which the establishment can function. Not to nitpick or anything.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: April 15 2012 at 22:34 |
The T wrote:
Poligamy should be allowed too. |
A man should be able to marry a chair too.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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colorofmoney91
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 16 2008
Location: Biosphere
Status: Offline
Points: 22774
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Posted: April 15 2012 at 22:54 |
My chair and I would love to get married.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: April 15 2012 at 23:09 |
I'm quite sure a lot of men are actually married to their chairs...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: April 15 2012 at 23:09 |
IMHO Marriage is the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law.
So I don't believe in gay marriage.
But I do believe that single people can adopt if they have a stable position that ensure the kids wealth, no matter the sexual preference of the parent,
There are millions of abandoned kids, and gay couples (or single gay persons) are as good parents as heterosexual couples.
Sounds contradictory, but that's my position.
Iván
Note: I believe in equal rights, not in special rights.
For example, in my country they have created femicide, if you kill a woman you have a larger conviction, that's absurd
Gay or straight you can only marry persons of the opposite sex
But adopting is a right that gay or straight share equally
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 15 2012 at 23:37
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: April 15 2012 at 23:48 |
There is an inequality in how people who can love one another cannot marry whereas people who do love one another can marry. All that is different is the sex of one of the partners involved. All parties are of the age of consent and reasonable people, at least it is possibly they are. It's...kind of hard to put into words because it seems so obvious that it's wrong do deny homosexuals the ability to marry one another. It would at least be understandable to say "I disagree with gay marriage because of my religion" but I take issue with trying to make it a rational opinion through argument devoid of empathy.
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Slaughternalia
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 901
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 00:02 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
IMHO Marriage is the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law.
So I don't believe in gay marriage.
But I do believe that single people can adopt if they have a stable position that ensure the kids wealth, no matter the sexual preference of the parent,
There are millions of abandoned kids, and gay couples (or single gay persons) are as good parents as heterosexual couples.
Sounds contradictory, but that's my position.
Iván
Note: I believe in equal rights, not in special rights.
For example, in my country they have created femicide, if you kill a woman you have a larger conviction, that's absurd
Gay or straight you can only marry persons of the opposite sex
But adopting is a right that gay or straight share equally
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I disagree, only because I think that it's a bit old fashioned to define and restrict "marriage" that much, but this is a reasonable argument
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I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 00:10 |
stonebeard wrote:
There is an inequality in how people who can love one another cannot marry whereas people who do love one another can marry. All that is different is the sex of one of the partners involved. All parties are of the age of consent and reasonable people, at least it is possibly they are. It's...kind of hard to put into words because it seems so obvious that it's wrong do deny homosexuals the ability to marry one another. It would at least be understandable to say "I disagree with gay marriage because of my religion" but I take issue with trying to make it a rational opinion through argument devoid of empathy. |
This is not a religious thread, if it was based on religious idea, my opinion would be different, because as a Catholic person, would be enough to agree with the rules of the Catholic Church (The Church will never accept it), and the Church doesn't care for civil marriage. .
In the Civil Code of my country, marriage is defined as the legal union between two persons of different sex with no impediments. as long as it's not changed, and I believe it shouldn't be changed because marriage is clearly defined, I won't change my position, remember, marriage is an institution but also a contract and contracts must be formal in order to be valid.
They can live together, I have no problem, they can inherit to anyone they want, they should be allowed to adopt, that not contrary to the institution of marriage and grants no special rights to anybody.
We should have equal rights, and be allowed to marry a person of the opposite sex, granting marriage between people of the same sex, would be allowing special rights to one sector of the population and I can't accept this.
For the same reason I don't accept polygamy (even between consenting adults), the institution of sister-wife or marriage with minors allowed in determined religions.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - April 16 2012 at 00:20
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PyramidMeetsTheEye
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 02 2012
Location: Slovenia
Status: Offline
Points: 118
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 00:23 |
f**king epic man thanks for the video. this video really opens your mind.
Cant wait for the philosophy class
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PyramidMeetsTheEye
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 02 2012
Location: Slovenia
Status: Offline
Points: 118
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 00:23 |
why not it seems reasonable
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 04:14 |
The Catholic church will accept gay marriage within 30 years, bank on it. That big bunch of sellouts will do anything to change with the times in order to keep the coffers fill. Time and again they shift the goalposts whenever they worry they're losing customers.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 04:15 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
We should have equal rights, and be allowed to marry a person of the opposite sex, granting marriage between people of the same sex, would be allowing special rights to one sector of the population and I can't accept this. |
How is that allowing special rights? It's equal rights. Which is exactly what you want.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 04:26 |
Yeah Ivan, if you are against it for religious reasons/think it's unnatural than that's perfectly fine...but can't use the rationale you are trying.
I and most will agree "special rights" are not equal..but you are trying to claim gay marriage is a special right? They are already denied that right, so if it was allowed they WOULD be equal, not special.
It's just not a sound reason, just admit you don't like it/the notion goes against your religious beliefs.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 04:31 |
Special rights is what heterosexuals have by not allowing homosexuals to marry. I would also say that I am all for the husband taking his wife's surname and also neither partner changing their surname.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 04:51 |
VanderGraafKommandöh wrote:
Special rights is what heterosexuals have by not allowing homosexuals to marry.
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That is an excellent point.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 04:56 |
Look, let's cut to the chase- whatever he says, Ivan *is* opposing gay marriage because of his religious prejudices. He's trying to conceal this in a trojan horse of logic and law because he knows that if he's honest and says "I hate gays because a man in the sky who created them tells me to", then there's likely to be a dog pile. PS Ivan's right about femicide though. What complete nonsense that is.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: April 16 2012 at 05:00 |
Textbook wrote:
Look, let's cut to the chase- whatever he says, Ivan *is* opposing gay marriage because of his religious prejudices. He's trying to conceal this in a trojan horse of logic and law because he knows that if he's honest and says "I hate gays because a man in the sky who created them tells me to", then there's likely to be a dog pile. PS Ivan's right about femicide though. What complete nonsense that is. |
Of course that's the case, but like I said...we're not being fooled, just come out with it, Ivan. I respect an honest opinion I hate over someone pandering, any day. That's a different story, no one (should) believe in different penalties for the same crime just because the victim is (insert whatever you'd like). That's for another thread though.
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