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Topic ClosedLibertarian Thread #2: We Shall Never Die!

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Slartibartfast View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2012 at 17:34
OK, this sums up my political point of view better than anything:
"There is a big difference between a disappointing friend and a deadly enemy. Of course the
  Democrats are disappointing. That's what makes them Democrats. If they were any more
  frustrating they'd be your relatives. But in this country they are all that stands between you
  and darkest night. You know why their symbol is the letter 'D'? Because it's a grade that
  means good enough, but just barely. You know why the Republican symbol is 'R'?
  Because it's the noise a pirate makes when he robs you and feeds you to a shark.''
     --  Bill Maher
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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The T View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2012 at 18:41
The democrats are all that stands between one and darkest night?

Really Slarti, Bill Maher? I would've expected someone slightly better... Like any random baseball player at least...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2012 at 20:01
Bill Maher is just f**kin terrible. He even beats Stewart for being unfunny and douchey. Oh also I have no idea what he "stands" for. Libertarian supposedly but seems like a generic, and mindless, liberal to me. Which is fine, but the guy just has no idea.
I'm for legalization of drugs but Maher should lay off em when going on TV....

Also guess this is appropriate because it involves PAUL. Also I know Maddow is terrible too but at least she is pointing out the fact that...well these delegates Romney has "won" aren't all there. Also I love the constant references to Goldman Sachs moneyLOL




Edited by JJLehto - February 14 2012 at 20:27
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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 10:00
I think it's telling that your political philosophy says nothing about policies or issues but only about the particular party you think should perennially be in power.

Bill Maher is a fraud. I can't stand him.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 10:34
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

The democrats are all that stands between one and darkest night?

Really Slarti, Bill Maher? I would've expected someone slightly better... Like any random baseball player at least...

Well I don't like baseball. LOL

Attack Bill all you want but I suspect with that level of hatred you don't watch him anyway.  I've been watching him since his Politically Incorrect Comedy Central days and I mostly agree with his opinions.


Edited by Slartibartfast - February 15 2012 at 10:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 10:44
Slarti Slarti Slarti...

I watched the HBO Bill Maher show for three years... Slowly I realized how empty and shallow his rhetoric is, how inconsistent his views are (let's legalize all drugs, but at the same time let's make the state the most powerful entity on the planet; let's accept all people and all view, but at the same time let's treat all religious people as idiots who can't think).

Now I can't stand him.
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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 10:45
I've seen every episode of Real Time with Bill Maher. My friend is an avid fan. He's a fraud. He pretends to be a libertarian, but then he'll turn around and support the drug war. He's just an ego maniacal idiot who uses his zombie audience to yell at his guests when they begin to defeat him intellectually.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 10:49
And hang out with Hugh Hefner at least allegedly.

But your commentary certainly indicates that you aren't really watching the show.

Unlike you, I watch Real Time Religulously and know of what I speak. Tongue


Edited by Slartibartfast - February 15 2012 at 10:53
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 11:03
^I watched it religiously until last year and I can certify Pat's words. He doesn't really seem to support the drug war but his is an empty cry for legal drugs, he doesn't attack the drug war as an attack to liberty but seems to be just desperate to be able to smoke everywhere without having to conceal it...

And Religulous... I enjoyed the first time I saw it. The second time (and by then I still liked him and agreed with many of his views) I couldn't stand it as much.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 11:04
He's flipped his stance on legalizing non-marijuana drugs many times. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 11:11
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

...how inconsistent his views are (let's legalize all drugs, but at the same time let's make the state the most powerful entity on the planet...)


That isn't inconsistent at all. It's only inconsistent with your beliefs. You may come to the same conclusion, but that does not mean your premise is identical.
Hail Eris!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 11:22
Originally posted by Gamemako Gamemako wrote:


Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

...how inconsistent his views are (let's legalize all drugs, but at the same time let's make the state the most powerful entity on the planet...)
That isn't inconsistent at all. It's only inconsistent with your beliefs. You may come to the same conclusion, but that does not mean your premise is identical.
You are right. In appearance as you say there is no contradiction. It goes deeper though. A state that is all powerful usually decides what people can and can't do. There is little if any personal liberty. The more powerful the state, the more it will need regulations of everything and usually personal freedom disappears first.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 11:28
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

He's flipped his stance on legalizing non-marijuana drugs many times. 
I think he just wants to be left alone if he decides to smoke in the middle of the street. He probably doesn't give a damn about other drugs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 11:29

I do not think personal freedom is the only or even primary priority when deciding how to run a society.

However, I think it should be maximized as much as possible.
 
I would have said legalize marijuana but not harder drugs right up until the recently shown article about Portugal. To me, something that was a gut feeling before is now a matter of evidence. Now we have a fairly clear demonstration that public health, societal cost, and simplification of law all point toward getting rid of government controls in this case.
 
I would apply a similar metric. If something is clearly better with a centralized authority, fine by me. If common sense says a central authority would better organize, I'll go with it until evidence proves otherwise. But in general, if there is little reason to believe central control will improve our lives, it shouldn't happen.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 11:47
I think that central control works perfect for entities with one single goal in mind. Ask Apple

A society has 27373637382838282 goals in mind and 6737363738272728 different views and ways to get there....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 12:19
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

I do not think personal freedom is the only or even primary priority when deciding how to run a society.

However, I think it should be maximized as much as possible.
 


I don't think it's a priority when deciding how to run a society, but the governmental structure differs considerably from society. They're completely different entities with different goals.


"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 13:35
My B MoM, I didn't go on the internet for those 3 or 4 days, someone tells me you were pretty insulted when I made a crack about Western PA.

Sorry if you were but relax man, I'm from the place where other states dump their sh*t on us and then make fun  of us for being a sh*t hole, and is the constant joke for the nation (no thanks now to Jersey Shore). Not really worth getting worked up over. Just a joke. For what it's worth I enjoy Pittsburgh itself, fine place, they have Primanti's tonsa bars and I finally went to a casino so that was fun.

Even though you were incorrect about NYC I won't even defend it because it's not worth the time. Besides, lots of different people were all getting along fine at the NY Giants victory paradeCool You just need a common denominator!

Yeah, Pat hit it on the head with Maher...he just talks a lot but doesn't say anything. What he does say just really doesn't make sense. Thinking about it, Cain reminded me of him...how they both try to occupy every position at one time except Maher is of course more leftist.
He's also dreadfully unfunny


Edited by JJLehto - February 15 2012 at 13:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 13:48
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

I do not think personal freedom is the only or even primary priority when deciding how to run a society.

However, I think it should be maximized as much as possible.
 


I don't think it's a priority when deciding how to run a society, but the governmental structure differs considerably from society. They're completely different entities with different goals.


 
 
They should be. Government should have no purpose other than to help us organize to make for a better life for us all.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 13:56
You said you support legalization of hard narcotics. Does that mean you think everyone should do hard narcotics? I'm assuming the answer is no. Since government is not the mechanism regulating the narcotics, society would be the natural one to dissuade everyone from u;sing them wholesale. Your very position seems to suggest that they shouldn't be the same entity.

When someone robs a liquor store, government exists to put him in jail. Society exists to tell us not to demonize the robber who needed the money to support his son who was just diagnosed with ALS.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2012 at 14:02
To be fair Negoba, what they should do and what the reality is....is quite different.
That's what I've realized recently. Government should serve us, work for us, make our lives easier but they don't. In fact it's quite the opposite, the government (and I'm taking that as both parties, federal, state, maybe even local, courts, everything) seems to be geared to serving the interests of the few, not the many.

The social contract has been used as toilet paper man.

For the US there is no going back either, I've long struggled with how to deal with the issue and finally I've realized you can't. Only thing to do is scale back the scope of government, it needs to be done like it or not.
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