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The Krautrock Space
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zoviet View Drop Down
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the influence of Krautrock can also be heard in the post-punk era from late 70s to early 80s. apparently, Krautrock alongside Capt Beefheart 'survived' the critical culling prog n' fusion got, with many post-punk bands citing it as an influence. You can surely hear it in post-punk classics such as:

Wire - 154
Public Image Limited - Metal Box
Public Image Limited - Flowers of Romance
Eurythmics - In The Garden (in fact produced by Conny Plank and feat. Can's Jaki and Holger)
Simple Minds - Real To Real Cacophony
Simple Minds - Empires and Dance
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yeah to add to list, the aforementioned This Heat with their brilliant s/t album and the follow-up Deceit. Also their 12inch EP Health and Efficiency and a later release called Repeat.

Also, the might Vienna album by Ultravox. the heir to Kraftwerk's Trans Europ Express......
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Since we´re on the subject of Krautrock outside the normal territories, then maybe you guys should check out one of the biggest distributors of electro pop that have roamed the Western airwaves. This is Kraftwerk, before they were called that, and before any sort of "pop" had seeped into their sound. It still stands as an important album to this sprawling scene, and together with Amon Düül´s Phallus Dei, Can´s Monster Movie and Xhol Caravan´s debut - Tone Float is indeed one of the earliest albums to feature music that we today call Krautrock:
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yeah this one is classic. and the Kraftwerk 1 and 2 and Ralf & Florian albums are definitely still very krautrock, until they did the mighty Autobahn
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The title track of "Who Is This Who Is Coming" by The Future Kings Of England sounds me more Kraut-ish. 
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Hi,

 
I sure wish that we stop using the term "krautrock" ... we don't go around using the same style of naming for other countries (tnanks G3 for reminding us the obvious), and using this ... is an example that we can do this for the Germans, but not anyone else ... because in the end, it is not cool.
 
There is a lot of history on this, and in many circles some people are not worried about the term, but in the end, unlike many other music scenes out there, this ear in music had a massive connection to other arts and some rather intelectual ideas, that helped create the music, and we're not exactly discussing that or finding the link that helped people create such music, literature, film, theater and arts ... all of which are being grossly ignored.
 
In general, just because it "sounds like" or someone is merely turning on the microphone and walking down the street, does not necessarily make it "Revolution #9" and neither does it make ... "krautrock", simply because it spaces out for 5 minutes.  It's also like saying that the Germans did not have rock music before and after that, either ... which is also quite wrong.
 
In this manner, sense, and view, I would prefer that we give those musicians the credit as "progressive" because they DID experiment with new things, that you and I are STILL enjoying after 40 years ... I don't go around calling the Beach Boys "surf music" or "beach (or bleach) blond music" ... or some other inane term, and we really should stop calling this "krautrock".


Edited by moshkito - December 22 2011 at 09:48
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

 
I sure wish that we stop using the term "krautrock" ... we don't go around using the same style of naming for other countries (tnanks G3 for reminding us the obvious), and using this ... is an example that we can do this for the Germans, but not anyone else ... because in the end, it is not cool.
 
There is a lot of history on this, and in many circles some people are not worried about the term, but in the end, unlike many other music scenes out there, this ear in music had a massive connection to other arts and some rather intelectual ideas, that helped create the music, and we're not exactly discussing that or finding the link that helped people create such music, literature, film, theater and arts ... all of which are being grossly ignored.
 
In general, just because it "sounds like" or someone is merely turning on the microphone and walking down the street, does not necessarily make it "Revolution #9" and neither does it make ... "krautrock", simply because it spaces out for 5 minutes.  It's also like saying that the Germans did not have rock music before and after that, either ... which is also quite wrong.
 
In this manner, sense, and view, I would prefer that we give those musicians the credit as "progressive" because they DID experiment with new things, that you and I are STILL enjoying after 40 years ... I don't go around calling the Beach Boys "surf music" or "beach (or bleach) blond music" ... or some other inane term, and we really should stop calling this "krautrock".
It's strange that the people most offend by words are middle class white folk - the only people who can say whether Krautrock is offensive, or be offended by it, would be the German people themselves. I think we can be too sensitive to our perceived feelings of others and in that, reflect our guilt upon them - which is what being Politically Correct is really about if you look at it close enough.
 
It's a word, derived from another word (Kraut) that had a derogatory meaning (a meaning that is lost in the annuls of history about a war that few are alive to remember and one even my late dad was too young to have fought in), but in creating the new word (Krautrock) do we assume it carries the same derogatory meaning? Or even expect that it should? Certainly we do not regard the music produced by those "Krautrock" musicians to be worthy of  derision and scorn, so we would not associate our word for their music with any derogatory inclination or meaning, and the German people themselves should be rightly proud of the achievements of those Krautrock musicians, more so than the people of Canterbury for their musicians perhaps.
 
You could take the alternative transaltion that Kraut means "Herb", and given that Herb is another word for "Weed" and now Krautrock becomes Weed-rock, a more laid back form of Acid-rock with no side-effects other than a tendancy to forget what you were listening to. But that would be a revisionist contrivance.
 
However, to know whether "Limey" is an offensive term you'd have to ask the lime, not the Englishman, so perhaps we need to ask the cabbage.
 
PS: While I still think you're barking up the wrong tree on this all music is linked to the (so called) fine arts and other cerebally facinating (yawn) intellectual activities that it was allegedly surrounded by Pedro, what the genre is called has no effect on whether that is true or not - in pseudo science that is philosophy and the artisan-less art-artless art that is modern art, it does seem like more thought and effort was expended in imagining a snappy yet thought-provoking name for these "movements" and "schools" than was ever spent actually doing anything constructive. But what do I know.


Edited by Dean - December 22 2011 at 12:25
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Just like music - language is never stagnant, and I for one believe that the term Krautrock now more than ever is a word, which has no low blow aspirations whatsoever. For what it´s worth, I think it merely stands for Kosmische Musik, and if anyone here at the forum believe it to be a derogatory word, I do think we´d have heard a lot more about it. At least in this part of the forum, it is a word that inspire people to think about the more psychedelic and freeflowing parts of the progressive movement, and as much as I don´t want to pigeon-hole my favourite musics - I still want folks around here to get what I´m saying, without having to use 20 metaphors before I even get close to getting my thoughts across the vastness of the internet(Those neverending tirades of metaphors are strictly reserved for my reviewsLOL.)
Boxes are of use, only when we also have the mental power to go beyond them, and merely use them for what they are: convenient, but in no way shape or form anything close to the real deal - meaning what they represent, and I think most people know this. The music is still what counts - even if some have a way of reducing it down to a word or 2 - just like Krautrock.   
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^ I think Kosmische Musik is merely a subset of Krautrock - there are many Krautrock bands that do not play "cosmic music". I believe the term was originally coined by Edgar Froese for an early Tangerine Dream album.
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I must admit when i first saw there was a genre called Krautrock i was surprised, but after all these years it's just a name of a style of music i love and that's all.Uwe(Rivertree) is German and he'd be the perfect guy to ask if this title bothered him but i'd be really surprised if it did. I do get tired of all of this political correctness though.Sleepy 
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Maybe you´re right Dean, but then again there are many music sites that label anything German from the 70s as Krautrock, and that is not at all what it´s about. Fusion, symphonic everything gets thrown in the mix, and suddenly bands like Novalis or Anyone´s Daughter are Krautrock. There were Krautrock bands that incorporated those styles into their music, but it was still their own thang.
I think it is somewhat similar to people trying to explain Prog and what it entails, and then the mayhem starts. Well you´ve been here much longer than I have, and I think I´ve seen a lot of those threadsLOL
I think Krautrock is more about improv than any of the other categories featured here, except for maybe fusion and psych, and to some extent I believe that, along with a distinct drip drippy usage of electronics (that evolved into what many call the Berliner School) - are part of the "sound", and one of the defining distinctions that separates it from other styles. There is of course exceptions to this theory - I´ll admit to that. 

Edited by Guldbamsen - December 22 2011 at 15:32
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Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:

I must admit when i first saw there was a genre called Krautrock i was surprised, but after all these years it's just a name of a style of music i love and that's all.Uwe(Rivertree) is German and he'd be the perfect guy to ask if this title bothered him but i'd be really surprised if it did. I do get tired of all of this political correctness though.Sleepy 


thanks for mentioning me, my friend Smoke
maybe some people might have intended to use the term Krautrock with a disdainful view - it does not bother me, it's a term which has a positive background/meaning because standing for experimental approach


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Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:

I must admit when i first saw there was a genre called Krautrock i was surprised, but after all these years it's just a name of a style of music i love and that's all.Uwe(Rivertree) is German and he'd be the perfect guy to ask if this title bothered him but i'd be really surprised if it did. I do get tired of all of this political correctness though.Sleepy 



I´m with you about the political correctness. It gets so tiring and irritatingly slow to move any sort of conversations forth - like walking in mud.

And just for the record - Uwe uses the term in his reviews, so I don´t think he´s bothered in any way.

On another note John. I´m listening to NEU!´s debut album now, and I can´t believe how good this is! I mean, I´ve had it for over 10 years, but right now Weisensee just sounds out of this world and fresh - like I haven´t heard it for ages. I love when that sort of thing happensSmile And you know what I think of the sounds of the ocean in my Krautrock...
I guess you must know what I´m talking about too with your getting back to the classics marathon at the moment.

Ok, I have to log off now and prepare for my Santa performance tomorrow. Thinking about putting some CAN on for the kids, and maybe get them dancing a bitLOL
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Woops, I got ninja´d by the man himselfEmbarrassed

So nice to hear your thoughts on this Uwe!
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Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

^ I think Kosmische Musik is merely a subset of Krautrock - there are many Krautrock bands that do not play "cosmic music". I believe the term was originally coined by Edgar Froese for an early Tangerine Dream album.


agree - the label Kosmische Musik points to the more spheric keyboard/synth oriented department of krautrock, speaking of Popul Vuh, Tangerine Dream, Ashra, Edgar Froese, Klaus Schulze - pioneer Rolf-Ulrich Kaiser started his label  'Kosmische Kuriere' featuring such bands - later he widened the scope though


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The term krautrock and what has been linked to it has evolved over the years

    When first coined in the very early 70s, it simply meant "German rock" Thus, bands like Triumvirat, Scorpions and Eloy were just as krautrock as the ones that fit the term as we know it now
       Initially in Germany, the term had a derogatory ring to it, just like the term "kraut", derived from sauerkraut, as a negative nickname for Germans had.
          Over the years, the term has evolved and become more specialised as befitting what it is as defined now in PA
           Also, over time,the negative connotation for Germans has had it's bite taken out of it and people on both sides of the term as it initially felt have healed and progressed from that negativity
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Originally posted by zoviet zoviet wrote:

the influence of Krautrock can also be heard in the post-punk era from late 70s to early 80s. apparently, Krautrock alongside Capt Beefheart 'survived' the critical culling prog n' fusion got, with many post-punk bands citing it as an influence. You can surely hear it in post-punk classics such as:

Wire - 154
Public Image Limited - Metal Box
Public Image Limited - Flowers of Romance
Eurythmics - In The Garden (in fact produced by Conny Plank and feat. Can's Jaki and Holger)
Simple Minds - Real To Real Cacophony
Simple Minds - Empires and Dance
You have made some interesting points that are new to me, and had no idea about those German artists involved with the Eurythmics-Conny Plank was also involved in the obscured solo album by the late Helmut Koellen from '77 called You Won't See Me (not really krautrock, but i just had to plug it!)
    Conny Plank was am amazing and enormously important engineer/producer back in the day, involved with so many artists, just incredible
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Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by zoviet zoviet wrote:

the influence of Krautrock can also be heard in the post-punk era from late 70s to early 80s. apparently, Krautrock alongside Capt Beefheart 'survived' the critical culling prog n' fusion got, with many post-punk bands citing it as an influence. You can surely hear it in post-punk classics such as:

Wire - 154
Public Image Limited - Metal Box
Public Image Limited - Flowers of Romance
Eurythmics - In The Garden (in fact produced by Conny Plank and feat. Can's Jaki and Holger)
Simple Minds - Real To Real Cacophony
Simple Minds - Empires and Dance
You have made some interesting points that are new to me, and had no idea about those German artists involved with the Eurythmics-Conny Plank was also involved in the obscured solo album by the late Helmut Koellen from '77 called You Won't See Me (not really krautrock, but i just had to plug it!)
    Conny Plank was am amazing and enormously important engineer/producer back in the day, involved with so many artists, just incredible
Another late-70s/early-80s post-punk band influenced by Krautrock was Ultravox!, whose "!" is a direct reference to Neu! - Conny Plank produces three of their albums too (albums 3,4 & 5) (their debut was co-produced by Eno)
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Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by zoviet zoviet wrote:

the influence of Krautrock can also be heard in the post-punk era from late 70s to early 80s. apparently, Krautrock alongside Capt Beefheart 'survived' the critical culling prog n' fusion got, with many post-punk bands citing it as an influence. You can surely hear it in post-punk classics such as:

Wire - 154
Public Image Limited - Metal Box
Public Image Limited - Flowers of Romance
Eurythmics - In The Garden (in fact produced by Conny Plank and feat. Can's Jaki and Holger)
Simple Minds - Real To Real Cacophony
Simple Minds - Empires and Dance
You have made some interesting points that are new to me, and had no idea about those German artists involved with the Eurythmics-Conny Plank was also involved in the obscured solo album by the late Helmut Koellen from '77 called You Won't See Me (not really krautrock, but i just had to plug it!)
    Conny Plank was am amazing and enormously important engineer/producer back in the day, involved with so many artists, just incredible
Another late-70s/early-80s post-punk band influenced by Krautrock was Ultravox!, whose "!" is a direct reference to Neu! - Conny Plank produces three of their albums too (albums 3,4 & 5) (their debut was co-produced by Eno)
Dean, that is also new news to me about Ultravox!, interesting
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Originally posted by Rivertree Rivertree wrote:

Originally posted by Mellotron Storm Mellotron Storm wrote:

I must admit when i first saw there was a genre called Krautrock i was surprised, but after all these years it's just a name of a style of music i love and that's all.Uwe(Rivertree) is German and he'd be the perfect guy to ask if this title bothered him but i'd be really surprised if it did. I do get tired of all of this political correctness though.Sleepy 


thanks for mentioning me, my friend Smoke
maybe some people might have intended to use the term Krautrock with a disdainful view - it does not bother me, it's a term which has a positive background/meaning because standing for experimental approach
 
Thanks so much for your thoughts Uwe.How are things in your Psychedelic/Spacerock realm these days ?  One day you'll have to invite me,David and Damo to Germany to one of those "out there" festivals where clothing is optionalLOL.
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