"Occupy" Protests

The Doctor wrote: Epignosis wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: Epignosis wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: When you get more bothered about people trashing property than people being trashed by police there is something seriously wrong here. If someone came into my house and trashed it and the police showed up and trashed him, I am more bothered by the former than by the latter. What if people were just sitting out on your lawn and the police came by and pepper sprayed them?  Sure they were messing up your lawn... Which would bother you more then? By the way, I in know way endorse everything the protestors have done.  I wouldn't wait for the police.  If you aren't joking, that is truly disturbing.

I value the lives of my wife and children more than squatters outside my home.  I've been broken into this year.  We've lost over a thousand dollars of property that we worked our asses off to obtain and cannot replace.  Do you realize how frightened we were- how much sleep we lost- knowing how violated we'd been?

So no.  I'd give one warning.  You either go of your own volition or someone is going to carry you away.

The T wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: Unfortunately, sometimes the law isn't always there for you, but that doesn't in anyway relieve you of the responsibility of not going overboard in your response. Try doing some research on the old west beyond western movies... Anyway, I believe an armed society can be a civilized. Just check Switzerland.

They have holes in their funking cheese.  Holes in their cheese!!!

Actually I've always had an interest in history, old western movies, not so much.


Edited by Slartibartfast - November 21 2011 at 20:51

Padraic wrote: I'd probably call the police, but if someone was on my lawn with a gun, I'd probably really wish I had one too.

On this, a once in a lifetime event possibly, you and I agree. 

Slartibartfast wrote: Padraic wrote: I'd probably call the police, but if someone was on my lawn with a gun, I'd probably really wish I had one too. When those b*****ds kicked in our front door when my wife was about to take a shower, I wish she had one or I had been there with one.  I would have taken aim to wound at least one or put a bullet or two in their car.  She would have shot to kill.

The Doctor wrote: Epignosis wrote: The Doctor wrote: Epignosis wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: Epignosis wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: When you get more bothered about people trashing property than people being trashed by police there is something seriously wrong here. If someone came into my house and trashed it and the police showed up and trashed him, I am more bothered by the former than by the latter. What if people were just sitting out on your lawn and the police came by and pepper sprayed them?  Sure they were messing up your lawn... Which would bother you more then? By the way, I in know way endorse everything the protestors have done.  I wouldn't wait for the police.  If you aren't joking, that is truly disturbing.  I value the lives of my wife and children more than squatters outside my home.  I've been broken into this year.  We've lost over a thousand dollars of property that we worked our asses off to obtain and cannot replace.  Do you realize how frightened we were- how much sleep we lost- knowing how violated we'd been? So no.  I'd give one warning.  You either go of your own volition or someone is going to carry you away. Of course I would expect you or anyone to protect themselves and their loved ones.  But think about this.  If there is someone just sitting on your lawn, and you fear that he may have a weapon or may pose some sort of threat to you or your family, doesn't it make more sense to contact the police and have them deal with it than try to "carry" him off on your own.  What if he's got a gun, knows karate, has small explosives attached to his chest?  Your attempts at bravado have, instead of protecting you and yours, now placed them in danger.

You are changing variables here (and assuming I am unreasonable): A mob of people on my lawn is a more immediate threat than a wino who stumbles into our presence.  I've had people come into our yard plenty of times before- once three or four youths were wandering around.  I went out and addressed them in a kind way.  They told me they'd lost an earring (from horseplaying in my yard, which I had noted).  I helped them search for it.  We never found it, they thanked me anyway, left, and that was that. 

As far as bravado goes, I chased down a purse snatcher who robbed a woman whilst she was in church.  If I go out of my way to protect the mere property of an acquaintance, how much more will I do to protect the lives of my family?

Now, to turn tables, I'll ask you this: Suppose you call the police when a bunch of people are on your lawn and the police start pepper spaying, clubbing, shooting, stabbing, killing them, what are you going to do?

And will you feel bad for having called the police?

Video tape it and send it to the press, Internal Affairs, etc.  Not much more I can do against a bunch of armed thugs beating people and killing them.

And yes, I'd feel pretty bad about that.

Epignosis wrote: Now, to turn tables, I'll ask you this: Suppose you call the police when a bunch of people are on your lawn and the police start pepper spaying, clubbing, shooting, stabbing, killing them, what are you going to do? And will you feel bad for having called the police?

These wouldn't happen to be the Ex-Police? (If you don't get this joke you may be too old to have watched really old SNL)

Epignosis wrote: I value the lives of my wife and children more than squatters outside my home.  I've been broken into this year.  We've lost over a thousand dollars of property that we worked our asses off to obtain and cannot replace.  Do you realize how frightened we were- how much sleep we lost- knowing how violated we'd been? So no.  I'd give one warning.  You either go of your own volition or someone is going to carry you away.

You live in a neighborhood with squatters outside your home?

By the way if some OWS protesters were to camp on my lawn, I'd make them do yard work.


Edited by Slartibartfast - November 21 2011 at 21:06

The Doctor wrote: The question was about trespassers on Robert's lawn, not people assaulting his wife.  In such a case, when the cops will not arrive in time, you most certainly have a right to defend yourself and your loved ones.

OK, so if I continuously come to your house, drop my pants, and defecate on your lawn and the cops never catch me, are you going to sit there and watch me do it over and over or are you going to eventually come out there and stop me? Or if you see me dancing on top of your car with a baseball bat, are you going to let me destroy it while waiting for the cops to come or are you going to do something about it?

Slartibartfast wrote: Once again it comes down to appropriate measured response.  What if the police had hosed down the protestors with super soakers?  Probably would have annoyed them away.  At least the police would have fun and no one would have been too hurt.  At least for the love of humanity hit them in the eyes with the super soakers after the pepper spray.

I would actually support this. ESPECIALLY if the super soakers were designed to look like real machine guns. The looks on the protesters' faces would be priceless.
But police do sometimes use water hoses on crowds and that usually gets decried as too militant, too.

don't *hic* tase me brah!

Padraic wrote: don't *hic* tase me brah!

k *hic* I won't *hic* pahnties!