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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:34
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

When you get more bothered about people trashing property than people being trashed by police there is something seriously wrong here.


If someone came into my house and trashed it and the police showed up and trashed him, I am more bothered by the former than by the latter.

What if people were just sitting out on your lawn and the police came by and pepper sprayed them?  Sure they were messing up your lawn...
Which would bother you more then?

By the way, I in know way endorse everything the protestors have done. 


I wouldn't wait for the police.  Stern Smile


If you aren't joking, that is truly disturbing.  Stern Smile


I value the lives of my wife and children more than squatters outside my home.  I've been broken into this year.  We've lost over a thousand dollars of property that we worked our asses off to obtain and cannot replace.  Do you realize how frightened we were- how much sleep we lost- knowing how violated we'd been?

So no.  I'd give one warning.  You either go of your own volition or someone is going to carry you away.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:39
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

When you get more bothered about people trashing property than people being trashed by police there is something seriously wrong here.


If someone came into my house and trashed it and the police showed up and trashed him, I am more bothered by the former than by the latter.

What if people were just sitting out on your lawn and the police came by and pepper sprayed them?  Sure they were messing up your lawn...
Which would bother you more then?

By the way, I in know way endorse everything the protestors have done. 


I wouldn't wait for the police.  Stern Smile


If you aren't joking, that is truly disturbing.  Stern Smile


I value the lives of my wife and children more than squatters outside my home.  I've been broken into this year.  We've lost over a thousand dollars of property that we worked our asses off to obtain and cannot replace.  Do you realize how frightened we were- how much sleep we lost- knowing how violated we'd been?

So no.  I'd give one warning.  You either go of your own volition or someone is going to carry you away.


Of course I would expect you or anyone to protect themselves and their loved ones.  But think about this.  If there is someone just sitting on your lawn, and you fear that he may have a weapon or may pose some sort of threat to you or your family, doesn't it make more sense to contact the police and have them deal with it than try to "carry" him off on your own.  What if he's got a gun, knows karate, has small explosives attached to his chest?  Your attempts at bravado have, instead of protecting you and yours, now placed them in danger. 
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:41
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


Unfortunately, sometimes the law isn't always there for you, but that doesn't in anyway relieve you of the responsibility of not going overboard in your response.
Try doing some research on the old west beyond western movies...

Anyway, I believe an armed society can be a civilized. Just check Switzerland.
They have holes in their funking cheese.  Holes in their cheese!!!

Actually I've always had an interest in history, old western movies, not so much.


Edited by Slartibartfast - November 21 2011 at 20:51
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:42
I'd probably call the police, but if someone was on my lawn with a gun, I'd probably really wish I had one too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:43
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

I'd probably call the police, but if someone was on my lawn with a gun, I'd probably really wish I had one too.


On this, a once in a lifetime event possibly, you and I agree.  LOL
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:44
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

I'd probably call the police, but if someone was on my lawn with a gun, I'd probably really wish I had one too.

When those b*****ds kicked in our front door when my wife was about to take a shower, I wish she had one or I had been there with one.  I would have taken aim to wound at least one or put a bullet or two in their car before calling the police.  She would have shot to kill.


Edited by Slartibartfast - November 21 2011 at 20:46
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:47
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

I'd probably call the police, but if someone was on my lawn with a gun, I'd probably really wish I had one too.

When those b*****ds kicked in our front door when my wife was about to take a shower, I wish she had one or I had been there with one.  I would have taken aim to wound at least one or put a bullet or two in their car.  She would have shot to kill.

I remember you telling that story.  Horrific.  Did they ever catch who did it?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:48
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

I'd probably call the police, but if someone was on my lawn with a gun, I'd probably really wish I had one too.


On this, a once in a lifetime event possibly, you and I agree.  LOL

May we both never encounter the situation.  Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:50
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

When you get more bothered about people trashing property than people being trashed by police there is something seriously wrong here.


If someone came into my house and trashed it and the police showed up and trashed him, I am more bothered by the former than by the latter.

What if people were just sitting out on your lawn and the police came by and pepper sprayed them?  Sure they were messing up your lawn...
Which would bother you more then?

By the way, I in know way endorse everything the protestors have done. 


I wouldn't wait for the police.  Stern Smile


If you aren't joking, that is truly disturbing.  Stern Smile


I value the lives of my wife and children more than squatters outside my home.  I've been broken into this year.  We've lost over a thousand dollars of property that we worked our asses off to obtain and cannot replace.  Do you realize how frightened we were- how much sleep we lost- knowing how violated we'd been?

So no.  I'd give one warning.  You either go of your own volition or someone is going to carry you away.


Of course I would expect you or anyone to protect themselves and their loved ones.  But think about this.  If there is someone just sitting on your lawn, and you fear that he may have a weapon or may pose some sort of threat to you or your family, doesn't it make more sense to contact the police and have them deal with it than try to "carry" him off on your own.  What if he's got a gun, knows karate, has small explosives attached to his chest?  Your attempts at bravado have, instead of protecting you and yours, now placed them in danger. 


You are changing variables here (and assuming I am unreasonable): A mob of people on my lawn is a more immediate threat than a wino who stumbles into our presence.  I've had people come into our yard plenty of times before- once three or four youths were wandering around.  I went out and addressed them in a kind way.  They told me they'd lost an earring (from horseplaying in my yard, which I had noted).  I helped them search for it.  We never found it, they thanked me anyway, left, and that was that. 

As far as bravado goes, I chased down a purse snatcher who robbed a woman whilst she was in church.  If I go out of my way to protect the mere property of an acquaintance, how much more will I do to protect the lives of my family?

Now, to turn tables, I'll ask you this: Suppose you call the police when a bunch of people are on your lawn and the police start pepper spaying, clubbing, shooting, stabbing, killing them, what are you going to do?

And will you feel bad for having called the police?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:51
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:


I remember you telling that story.  Horrific.  Did they ever catch who did it?

No it happened to another house a few away just a few days ago.  They were away, the guys got off with computer equipment, TVs, and stuff.  Only away for a couple of hours and we've all been keeping an eye out for suspicious things in the neighborhood.


Edited by Slartibartfast - November 21 2011 at 20:53
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:54
Video tape it and send it to the press, Internal Affairs, etc.  Not much more I can do against a bunch of armed thugs beating people and killing them.

And yes, I'd feel pretty bad about that.
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:55
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:


I only have one thing to say to that.  Where can I get my own matter destroying ray gun? Tongue

I do not place as much value on property I suppose as some do.  I do not think that my property is "derived" from me, but is rather just stuff that either entertains me or I need for some reason or another.  It isn't a part of me.  That said, it would anger me if someone destroyed say my CD collection, but I don't think it comes anywhere near violence against a person.  Nor does a person who damages property deserve to have violence done against them.  At least not by armed cops. 


That's just not good. You're really mistaken if you think property is always a cd collection. Property could be the house you spent your life paying into to keep your family safe and sheltered. It can be the food you worked all day to be able to eat. It can be the inventory of your store which represents essentially your ability to eat in the future. You're making horrible general statement that makes no sense in the context of reality.


"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 20:56
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



Now, to turn tables, I'll ask you this: Suppose you call the police when a bunch of people are on your lawn and the police start pepper spaying, clubbing, shooting, stabbing, killing them, what are you going to do?

And will you feel bad for having called the police?

These wouldn't happen to be the Ex-Police? Tongue (If you don't get this joke you may be too old to have watched really old SNL)


Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



I value the lives of my wife and children more than squatters outside my home.  I've been broken into this year.  We've lost over a thousand dollars of property that we worked our asses off to obtain and cannot replace.  Do you realize how frightened we were- how much sleep we lost- knowing how violated we'd been?

So no.  I'd give one warning.  You either go of your own volition or someone is going to carry you away.

You live in a neighborhood with squatters outside your home?

By the way if some OWS protesters were to camp on my lawn, I'd make them do yard work.


Edited by Slartibartfast - November 21 2011 at 21:06
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 21:05
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Video tape it and send it to the press, Internal Affairs, etc.  Not much more I can do against a bunch of armed thugs beating people and killing them.

And yes, I'd feel pretty bad about that.


Why would you feel bad?  You only followed the advice you gave me: Call the police.

And what would the press do?  They are the multi-millionaire dogs you hate.  Wink

But let's be practical in our scenario then.  Let's say it's one wino on your lawn (maybe he is sh*tting in your petunias, I don't know).  You want him gone, but he refuses to leave.  You call the police, and they send one man.  This officer (for some reason) has misplaced his gun.  He just has a baton and pepper spray, and is flogging the wino, perhaps to the point of death.  You have a shotgun.  What do you do?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 21:08
Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:


The question was about trespassers on Robert's lawn, not people assaulting his wife.  In such a case, when the cops will not arrive in time, you most certainly have a right to defend yourself and your loved ones.


OK, so if I continuously come to your house, drop my pants, and defecate on your lawn and the cops never catch me, are you going to sit there and watch me do it over and over or are you going to eventually come out there and stop me? Or if you see me dancing on top of your car with a baseball bat, are you going to let me destroy it while waiting for the cops to come or are you going to do something about it?


Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


Once again it comes down to appropriate measured response.  What if the police had hosed down the protestors with super soakers?  Probably would have annoyed them away.  At least the police would have fun and no one would have been too hurt.  At least for the love of humanity hit them in the eyes with the super soakers after the pepper spray.


I would actually support this. ESPECIALLY if the super soakers were designed to look like real machine guns. The looks on the protesters' faces would be priceless.
But police do sometimes use water hoses on crowds and that usually gets decried as too militant, too.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 21:09
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Video tape it and send it to the press, Internal Affairs, etc.  Not much more I can do against a bunch of armed thugs beating people and killing them.

And yes, I'd feel pretty bad about that.


Why would you feel bad?  You only followed the advice you gave me: Call the police.

And what would the press do?  They are the multi-millionaire dogs you hate.  Wink

But let's be practical in our scenario then.  Let's say it's one wino on your lawn (maybe he is sh*tting in your petunias, I don't know).  You want him gone, but he refuses to leave.  You call the police, and they send one man.  This officer (for some reason) has misplaced his gun.  He just has a baton and pepper spray, and is flogging the wino, perhaps to the point of death.  You have a shotgun.  What do you do?

Just because you hate thuggish police doesn't mean you have to hate all police.  Just because you hate some rich people doesn't mean you hate all rich people. 

Oh that's good.  What if I had a taser?  Can I tase the cop to save the wino?
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 21:11
don't *hic* tase me brah!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 21:12
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by The Doctor The Doctor wrote:

Video tape it and send it to the press, Internal Affairs, etc.  Not much more I can do against a bunch of armed thugs beating people and killing them.

And yes, I'd feel pretty bad about that.


Why would you feel bad?  You only followed the advice you gave me: Call the police.

And what would the press do?  They are the multi-millionaire dogs you hate.  Wink

But let's be practical in our scenario then.  Let's say it's one wino on your lawn (maybe he is sh*tting in your petunias, I don't know).  You want him gone, but he refuses to leave.  You call the police, and they send one man.  This officer (for some reason) has misplaced his gun.  He just has a baton and pepper spray, and is flogging the wino, perhaps to the point of death.  You have a shotgun.  What do you do?

Just because you hate thuggish police doesn't mean you have to hate all police.  Just because you hate some rich people doesn't mean you hate all rich people. 

Oh that's good.  What if I had a taser?  Can I tase the cop to save the wino?


You have a shotgun.  What do you do?

And I like all police so far except two.  Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 21:12
Originally posted by Padraic Padraic wrote:

don't *hic* tase me brah!


k *hic* I won't *hic* pahnties!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 21 2011 at 21:14
Originally posted by TheMasterMofo TheMasterMofo wrote:



I would actually support this. ESPECIALLY if the super soakers were designed to look like real machine guns. The looks on the protesters' faces would be priceless.
But police do sometimes use water hoses on crowds and that usually gets decried as too militant, too.

No those are true weapons grade super soakers.  Have you ever been hit by a freaking fire hose stream?  I haven't, but I've heard they hurt.  I'm luring you into an actual discussion.  Does the availability of non-lethal weapons make it easier for the police to act with force than they might use otherwise?  Which isn't to say some of the attacks on the protestors haven't been harmful.  And I brought up Egypt because it was in the paper that I usually read during my lunch break while at my station:

Egyptian Police burn protest tents to clear Cairo's Tahrir




Edited by Slartibartfast - November 21 2011 at 21:18
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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