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SandCastleVirtue 
Forum Newbie 
Joined: October 20 2011 Status: Offline Points: 13 |
 Topic: Prog rock and the loudness warPosted: October 22 2011 at 18:32 |
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For those of you who are not familiar with what the "loudness war" is, check out this short video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ I'm finding that almost every new release I discover is suffering from the same problem. More and more prog releases are sounding like complete crap and it's very hard to listen to an album in one sitting - the best way to listen to prog albums in my opinion. I'm not an audiophile, but this has gotten to a point where the volume is completely brickwalled and everything sounds terrible, through both decent speakers/headphones and cheaper ones. Edited by SandCastleVirtue - October 22 2011 at 18:33 |
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: May 27 2005 Location: NE Indiana Status: Offline Points: 28057 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 18:54 |
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Can you give examples. Vapor Trails doesn't count.
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infocat
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: June 10 2011 Location: Colorado, USA Status: Offline Points: 4671 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 19:09 |
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I dunno... I was listening to something recently, Grace for Drowning I think, and I went from quite to loud so abruptly it almost blew my ears out of my head!
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Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
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Horizons
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 19:39 |
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I honestly can't think of an example. (Besides Vapor Trails)
GfD has great dynamics and never gave me the impression of poor sound production in terms of volume. Edited by Horizons - October 22 2011 at 20:28 |
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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TopographicTales
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 05 2011 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 115 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 20:12 |
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It most definitely does. My eyes almost popped out of my head when I saw that.
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Horizons
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 20:27 |
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What song? @ Infocat
Edited by Horizons - October 22 2011 at 20:35 |
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 20:29 |
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If it's too loud you might just have it turned up too loud. Edited by Slartibartfast - October 22 2011 at 20:32 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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TopographicTales
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 05 2011 Location: NJ Status: Offline Points: 115 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 20:30 |
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I was agreeing with you, it's got amazing dynamics. I was shocked to see it listed in this thread.
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Horizons
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 20:35 |
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Opps! I'm sorry i completely forgot who posted the original statement about GfD.
That's embarrassing.
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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JS19
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 10 2010 Location: Lancaster, UK Status: Offline Points: 1321 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 20:44 |
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Listen to Remainder The Black Dog. While the huge changes in dynamics definitely add another dimension to the song, it can be rather shocking when listening with headphones, as I found out on my first listen. (Think throwing the headphones off my ears in panic).
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Horizons
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 20:55 |
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Well my opinion is slightly skewed because my first few listens were done by speakers. So the mid-section of the song didn't really surprise me or cause any cringe. Though i guess i can see your point of view. Also does the OP believe that the guitar solo or chorus to Wilson's Harmony Korine is an example?
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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infocat
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: June 10 2011 Location: Colorado, USA Status: Offline Points: 4671 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 21:06 |
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Sorry, I meant that GfD does not appear to be a victim of the loudness war. It is very dynamic. Perhaps too much!
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Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
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Horizons
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 21:07 |
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Ah k.
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 3595 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 21:16 |
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Bob Dylan's Infidels sure suffers from this lewdness war. Have you heard Jokerham? It's sure as hell a ruby-sappharie fears to bed a pinto bean. It's death metal. It's new wave. What is it?
Spruce Bringsteen's Infant-dells sounds too much like Bobert Zimmer-catches-skin-man's Another Slide. The answer, my friend, is blowing with astro-glide.
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: November 19 2005 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 10964 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 23:35 |
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Umphrey's McGee's new album does not suffer from the Loudness Wars, neither do the new Dream Theater, Neal Morse, Karmakanic, Steven Wilson, The Tangent, Beardfish, Yes, even Opeth.
I will admit the new Symphony X album suffers from the Loudness Wars. I can't recall other recent albums that fell into this problem right now. |
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The Truth
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 19 2009 Location: Kansas Status: Offline Points: 21795 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 23:45 |
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But Infidels was a great album. |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: October 22 2011 at 23:49 |
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It's more a problem in metal than prog. Grace from Drowning is in fact an example of how it should be done. Although....the loudness war is kind of exaggerated because it is not just the amount of compression but the nature of the music that matters. Listen to the acoustic guitar strokes on Sectarian....how often do bands express tension so effectively with what are in actual fact soft textures. If you are going to play at 11 from start from finish, it's going to get boring and annoying after some time anyway and the loudness of the recording only aggravates your irritation.
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Blackbeard
Forum Groupie 
Joined: February 28 2009 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 63 |
Posted: October 23 2011 at 01:08 |
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If you are a foobar user you can use this:
http://www.jokhan.demon.nl/DynamicRange/index.htm to measue the degree of loudness. For GfD it gives me really good values: ================================================================================ foobar2000 1.1.8 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.0 beta 6 log date: 2011-10-23 08:04:59 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Analyzed: Steve Wilson / Grace For Drowning -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR Peak RMS Duration Track -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DR13 -4.94 dB -24.61 dB 2:06 01-Grace For Drowning DR11 -0.02 dB -16.30 dB 7:41 02-Sectarian DR14 -0.10 dB -17.24 dB 7:51 03-Deform To Form A Star DR12 0.00 dB -16.04 dB 5:44 04-No Part Of Me DR12 -0.15 dB -17.17 dB 4:29 05-Postcard DR11 -6.33 dB -21.42 dB 2:23 06-Raider Prelude DR13 0.00 dB -17.15 dB 9:27 07-Remainder The Black Dog DR13 -4.04 dB -21.87 dB 2:59 01-Belle De Jour DR12 -0.37 dB -15.77 dB 4:49 02-Index DR12 -0.11 dB -17.18 dB 4:15 03-Track One DR12 0.00 dB -16.94 dB 23:21 04-Raider II DR14 -0.02 dB -19.24 dB 8:01 05-Like Dust I Have Cleared From My Eye -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Number of tracks: 12 Official DR value: DR12 Samplerate: 44100 Hz Channels: 2 Bitrate: 320 kbps Codec: MP3 ================================================================================ Edited by Blackbeard - October 23 2011 at 01:11 |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 29273 |
Posted: October 23 2011 at 03:58 |
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I actually like Vapor Trails. Its a hard rock album (not a prog album) so the loudness is not a problem to me.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
Posted: October 23 2011 at 04:14 |
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Nice, I didn't know this. Thanks. |
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Prog rock and the loudness war
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Horizons wrote:
