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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 16914
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 06:58 |
The RPI team is not currently adding any non-prog material to the sub, although there may be some questionable bands placed before we came along. We know there are some bands placed by "Proglucky" that would probably not make it through today's team.
For the OP to suggest that 99% of RPI bands are somehow not legit doesn't deserve comment.
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ProgBob
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 02 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 202
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 07:05 |
My interpretation of what he was saying - and I must admit it took me a while as I think it might have been expressed a little more clearly - is that a lot of stuff that is good gets downgraded simply because it is not really prog. He is using the example of a fan of Italian prog who reviews one of these 'non-prog' albums and gives it a bad review simply because it doesn't conform with his idea of prog. I think he is saying that it would be better if such albums weren't here or if they were placed in some category that makes it obvious that they should not be reviewed as prog albums. ( In my opinion, Prog-related already serves that need. )
Anyway that's just my interpretation and maybe I have completely misunderstood the point.
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Bob
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20298
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 07:59 |
Finnforest wrote:
The RPI team is not currently adding any non-prog material to the sub, although there may be some questionable bands placed before we came along. We know there are some bands placed by "Proglucky" that would probably not make it through today's team.
For the OP to suggest that 99% of RPI bands are somehow not legit doesn't deserve comment. |
Althopugh IU've had issue about RPI being a stand-alone genre (still not completely settled in my mind), I can only agree with my friend Jim's assessment... Not worth a reply.
I think no genre can claimto be 100% free of borderline inclusions.
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 09:16 |
Sean Trane wrote:
I think no genre can claimto be 100% free of borderline inclusions. |
Pretty much the bottom line right here.
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 16914
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 09:49 |
ProgBob wrote:
My interpretation of what he was saying - and I must admit it took me a while as I think it might have been expressed a little more clearly - is that a lot of stuff that is good gets downgraded simply because it is not really prog. He is using the example of a fan of Italian prog who reviews one of these 'non-prog' albums and gives it a bad review simply because it doesn't conform with his idea of prog. I think he is saying that it would be better if such albums weren't here or if they were placed in some category that makes it obvious that they should not be reviewed as prog albums. ( In my opinion, Prog-related already serves that need. )
Anyway that's just my interpretation and maybe I have completely misunderstood the point.
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I hope you're right Bob, and apologize if I misread his post. Seemed like he was singling us out for suckage. Bottom line, we do our best to make the right call, but nobody's perfect. If people disagree with a band we added, or a band any team added, they have the right to that opinion. I'm just not interested in arguing about placements anymore. You simply cannot please everyone, you have to move ahead with what the consensus of the team is.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11420
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 10:47 |
At the risk of stating the bleedin obvious....not even say, Crimson, Yes or ELP during the so-called early 70's 'golden years' were 100% Prog, 100% of the time
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 10:48 |
Any artist I don't like.
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8581
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 12:10 |
The site should consist of only Yes and Genesis. And they should be limited Close to the Edge and Foxtrot.
Seriously though: Radiohead, Bjork, Metallica, Journey, 90% of electronic-prog.
Metallica is the one that is the real sour grapes for me. Not because of the addition per se, but because of the spurious literary slight-of-hand used by certain people who will go nameless to make them out to be a prog-metal while simultaneously writing reviews of landmark prog-metal innovators decrying them as non-prog. Opinions are opinions, and we are all entitled/subject to them. But propaganda is just obnoxious. And there was a 950 page thread about it, so please stop before you start with the arguments about why they should be here.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 12:23 |
The T wrote:
Any artist I don't like. |
Best post. How about a "hide" button for certain bands? Once you've clicked it, you don't see them in the database anymore, their reviews don't show up when you read the homepage, and (as an extra-option) all posts mentioning them in the prog lounges get automatically hidden for you.
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Nightfly
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 01 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3659
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:11 |
KarmaMan wrote:
You know, many of the so called 'prog related' Artists.
It can be galling to read clueless reviews and ratings by some Italian prog fanof Albums that have little or no 'prog' content yet you'd rather listen to them then 90+ % of the generic stuff on this site, make that 99.9% of Italian prog.
I know it goes with the territory of having them included in the first place but people like Bowie and Kate Bush I'd love to see removed for starters, they deserve better. I'd rather see a listing of recommended 'proggish' albums by non 'progressive' artists. |
Are you suggesting that 99.9% of Italian prog shouldn't be here? I'm at a loss on how to resond to that.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:16 |
Personally I don't mind any band on here. I enjoy reading the reviews and the sl*g.offs can be just as interesting (and quite often much more amusing) as the worships.
Possibly my onw lazy definition of Prog helps here: To me Prog is just about everything that leaves the die-hard Brittney Spears and Donna Summer enthusiast completely befuddled. That's good enough for me: It's Prog (related).
Generally, every album on here is and has been an enrichment, and if some people argue that an album isn't Prog while others protest this, to me it just means that there's something there that some of us for some reason just don't hear (quite often I'm one of those :-) ) while others do. Or perhaps their own peronal definition is substantially different.
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Peter
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 31 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 9669
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 13:32 |
The problem, as ever, is with the very vague, amorphous, changing, subjective nature of the term "prog." It's a lousy way to classify music. (It only works on an individual by individual basis -- no two people seem to be able to fully agree on its parameters.)
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"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy.
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 14:42 |
Personally, I think the prog related section is what sets this site apart from others. Finnforest (above) and the OP are right in highlighting the misunderstanding the category can sometimes cause, but I think its presence here does far more good than harm.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28377
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 14:50 |
irrelevant wrote:
richardh wrote:
Queen and Led Zeppelin |
Wait. You are kiddin' right? |
Nope. See no reason for them to be here. Both are mighty and massively important bands that had bugger all to do with prog (imo)
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avantgrind
Forum Groupie
Joined: June 29 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 98
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 15:54 |
Today Is The Day should be included, imo.
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Warthur
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 06 2008
Location: London, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 617
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 15:54 |
I don't mind the presence of "prog related" myself. And it would be a shame to ditch it at this point, now lots of us have spent time and effort populating it with reviews.
But if it got pinched off and used as the core of a new "rockarchives" site - for all rock music not proggy enough to be prog and not metal enough to be metal - I could be happy with that.
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
Status: Offline
Points: 22989
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 15:57 |
The prog-Zeppelin compilation CD I made is much more progressive (prog if you prefer) than a crapload of albums on PA (albums that reside in proper prog cateories). Just sayin'.
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ProgBob
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 02 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 202
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 16:13 |
Warthur wrote:
I don't mind the presence of "prog related" myself. And it would be a shame to ditch it at this point, now lots of us have spent time and effort populating it with reviews.
But if it got pinched off and used as the core of a new "rockarchives" site - for all rock music not proggy enough to be prog and not metal enough to be metal - I could be happy with that. |
I disagree. It is one of the strengths of this site that it has a broad view of what constitutes prog and what might be of interest to prog fans. The problem with a "rockarchives" site is that it would expand so far from that prog-related core that it would become useless as a resource for people who like interesting music but aren't too bothered about whether it can be strictly labelled prog.
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Bob
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 21:57 |
Tapfret wrote:
. Not because of the addition per se, but because of the spurious literary slight-of-hand used by certain people who will go nameless to make them out to be a prog-metal while simultaneously writing reviews of landmark prog-metal innovators decrying them as non-prog. Opinions are opinions, and we are all entitled/subject to them. But propaganda is just obnoxious. |
So the suggestion that Metallica are prog metal is obnoxious propaganda while the media propoganda that passes off DT as prog metal (and NOT Sabotage-era Sabbath or early Metallica) is not? Wow! I really don't get why metalheads are so touchy about this. Ain't no rule that only odd time or licks obviously derived from Al Di Meola or Odyssey makes you prog. And no, this is not argument for why Metallica deserves to be here but to your suggestion that it is propaganda because it's not hard to guess who you are targeting here.
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8581
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Posted: July 06 2011 at 22:25 |
^So which part of that had anything to do with what I said? DT? Al DiMeola? lulwut?
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