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Joined: September 07 2007
Location: Middle-Earth
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Points: 4214
Posted: April 14 2011 at 11:13
harmonium.ro wrote:
Gandalff wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
Gandalff wrote:
Deep Purple is complete band. The Doors always lacked any bassist (and 40 years actually their frontman too).
They recorded the albums with guest bassists, I would have expected you knew that.
Guest bassists! How ridiculous!
It doesn't matter if that's "ridiculous" or not; it's bass guitar you're hearing on their albums, so you'll have to correct your initial statement.
Well. Guest musician isn´t full-value musician, otherwise he would be listed in band´s line-up, isn´t he? Thus The Doors was actually without bassist. That´s a fact.
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
Joined: March 18 2011
Location: Hertford
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Points: 466
Posted: April 14 2011 at 11:20
Gandalff wrote:
Deep Purple is complete band. The Doors always lacked any bassist (and 40 years actually their frontman too).
The Doors always sounds too elderly, mainly due to using vintage organs like Vox Continental, Wurlitzer, Gibson. On the other hand I like Hammond sound and Lord is its master, undoubtledly.
Gillan is an excellent singer with a wide range, concededly. Morrison was quite good singer, rather baritone with a expressive blues feeling. His lyrics and his stage presentation are invincible, on the other hand.
Ian Paice is better drummer than John Densmore, Ritchie Blackmore is one of Top Rock guitarists, thus I think surely better than Robby Krieger. Comparing of Glover or Hughes bass skills with Manzarek´s left hand on Fender Rhodes Bass Piano is useless, I mean.
Somebody told above that Doors are more progressive than Purples. OK in entirety, but their eponymous album (and the epic "April" especially) is probably more Prog than the whole Doors´ work.
Conclusion: Deep Purple is my choice!
That so-called 'lack' of a bass player actually made the balance better; don't you know that bands aren't lined up to a formula? That the best bands happen by accident and not design? That less is sometimes more?
Comparisons are slightly ridiculous, people have their plus and minus points, but if we must go down that road - Gillan is technically a better singer than Morrison (most singers are better than Morrison in that sense). On the other hand, Morrison was a great vocalist, with a much superior and memorable sound than Gillan (and most others). He also had an uncanny knack of knowing just what to do to make the atmosphere and theatrics work. He was probably an actor more than a singer, but it did the trick, few in Rock were his equal as a front man.
The comparison between Paice and Densmore has almost identical characteristics to the argument about Gillan and Morrison; Densmore wasn't a drummer's drummer, he wasn't skilful in that way, but he brought a uniquely-theatrical aspect to the music that no-one else could have done. Uncannily, the same argument holds good for Kreiger and other guitarists, including the excellent Blackmore. Kreiger could be amateurish in his licks and fluffs and general execution, but who else could have produced those eccentric and timely comments, a kind of genius informed his approach at times, certainly unique, and most of all, ideal for the Doors.
Manzarek may not be flashy like many of the top keyboard players (personally, I would place Lord at the top of the second rank) but he did a fantastic job of playing keyboard and bass and holding the whole thing together, absolutely outstanding in his case.
Deep Purple were/are a fine band who seized on the coming blues boom, throwing away their hippie outfits and donning their torn blue jeans to storm a certain audience with top-rate musicianship but rather banal riff structures that could not really be described as meaningful songs. It certainly worked a treat with that particular audience, but I don't think any serious critic would put Deep Purple in the same calibre as the Doors in terms of what they represent to music. Then again, it's fine if it's what you prefer. But that's a different argument.
Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
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Posted: April 14 2011 at 11:47
Gandalff wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
Gandalff wrote:
harmonium.ro wrote:
Gandalff wrote:
Deep Purple is complete band. The Doors always lacked any bassist (and 40 years actually their frontman too).
They recorded the albums with guest bassists, I would have expected you knew that.
Guest bassists! How ridiculous!
It doesn't matter if that's "ridiculous" or not; it's bass guitar you're hearing on their albums, so you'll have to correct your initial statement.
Well. Guest musician isn´t full-value musician, otherwise he would be listed in band´s line-up, isn´t he? Thus The Doors was actually without bassist. That´s a fact.
So? Does that make Doors' music without bass guitar? NO.
And all the bassist they worked with are specified.
Joined: September 12 2010
Location: Sweden
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Points: 546
Posted: April 14 2011 at 12:41
My first thought was: The Doors, of course. But when I remembered that Deep Purple has done more than Deep Purple in Rock, their three first albums are all masterpieces, and the 3rd album is without any doubt, progressive rock.
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Points: 36285
Posted: April 14 2011 at 14:13
richardh wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
richardh wrote:
One band that has me scurrying to the off switch on the radio is The Doors. Them and Iggy Pop.
Deep Purple get my vote although anything (other than Iggy Pop) versus The Doors would get my vote.
Well, I knew our tastes are different, but switching off whenever the Doors appear on the radio? They made some truly brilliant songs, and I actually like their short ones too, not only those that have prog length. Your taste really is weird.
I suspect the opposite is true and that my taste is rather boring and safe. Never really got The Doors and part of the problem is that there are only about 4 songs of theirs that I'm familiar with:
Light My Fire
Riders On The Storm
City At Night
People Are Strange
Light My Fire is okay I admit. I probably would keep the radio on for that one. Riders gets loads of praise yet Morrison's voice just sounds 'shot' to me and most of the song is Manzarek tinkling away on a piano and the sound of rain in the background.
City At Night gets load of play on Planet Rock but I find it just very dull.
People Are Strange - well that sums me up I guess
I just find The Doors very underwelming in general and because I only ever hear the same 4 songs on the radio ,makes me wonder why that are considered to be so great in the grand scheme of things.
I wonder if you ever skipped parts of Apocalypse Now due to The End?
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Points: 36285
Posted: April 14 2011 at 14:19
Snow Dog wrote:
^ I skip the entire film.
If I read you correctly, our tastes really are different. When I was a kid that movie had a profound effect on me. Along with Das Boot, it may be about my favourite war film. When I saw the A.N. Redux version in the cinema, I was rather bored though
Joined: March 23 2005
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Posted: April 14 2011 at 14:31
Logan wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
^ I skip the entire film.
If I read you correctly, our tastes really are different. When I was a kid that movie had a profound effect on me. Along with Das Boot, it may be about my favourite war film. When I saw the A.N. Redux version in the cinema, I was rather bored though
I love Das Boot, I think it's brilliant. I just don't buy into Apocalypse Now though. I would bet our tastes are more similar than you think.
Heart Of Darkness was a great film though. Sometimes I just don't like a film that is a "classic". Sometimes I do.
Joined: July 15 2009
Location: Australia
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Posted: April 14 2011 at 15:03
Wow, I didn't see that one coming. I respect The Doors, but I was never a big fan of their music, particularly Morrison's lyrics. Also, Purple's music is much more complex and rich, and they were all better musicians than the Doors.
"Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity. Calculate what we will or will not tolerate. Desperate to control all and everything. Unable to forgive your scarlet letterman."
Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 3449
Posted: April 14 2011 at 15:07
Ah, I love a drinking poll, as in would you have rather seen The Doors live, when Morrison was drunk and exposing himself, or Deep Purple, when Blackmore was too drunk to properly execute the most elementary of solos?
Two bands, neither known to shy away from excess, who are for ever associated with said excess.
I suppose I'll go for The Doors in terms of total output, though even on their best day they could never hope to approach the beautiful noise that is In Rock.
Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
Joined: January 04 2007
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Posted: April 14 2011 at 18:40
iluvmarillion wrote:
Getting back to the poll, The Doors was the first progressive band I ever got into at age fifteen, although I was fortunate that their first album I listened to happened to be their best (Strange Days). Morrison Hotel was a major disappointment for me after which I lost interest in the band and took up with Yes and Genesis.
LA Woman is worth having ...
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: July 14 2007
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Posted: April 14 2011 at 19:31
This is actually kind of fun. So let's make it simple, album by album, with the understanding that the release dates don't necessarily sync up. Ladies and Gentlemen, the quick and dirty DP vs. The Doors beatdown.
Shades of DP vs. The Doors Doors win. Shades of is a decent enough album, but really, Hush better than Light My Fire? Ain't happenin'.
Book of Taliesyn vs. Strange Days Really early instance of "well the first album was good, let's do it again", in the case of The Doors. Really early instance of "well we wrote a couple good songs but need some filler, why not go with a Neil Diamond song", in the case of DP. Doors win.
Deep Purple vs. Waiting for the Sun Now here it gets interesting. The first properly decent DP album, and the first actually thought out The Doors album. I'll admit, I'm a sucker for Waiting For the Sun, which is The Doors finest album. No one here gets out alive.
So here were are mid-point, Doors up 3-0. I'm not talking about instrumental virtuosity, just looking at how good are the albums.
In Rock vs. The Soft Parade. Worst Doors album vs. one of the finest rock albums ever made. It's a fact, Mt. Rushmore-esquly carve in pure stone, In Rock rules, and is the best of either bands output.
Fireball vs. Morrison Hotel. Good comeback album for The Doors. Bad follow up album for DP. I always liked Peace Frog. Call it a tie.
Which leaves...
Machine Head vs. L.A. Woman
Well for DP we finally get the true follow up to In Rock. Riff city. I'm not sure anyone still extant on the plant does not know the Smoke on the Water riff. Plus there's Lazy, Space Truckin', et. al. However, L.A. Woman's a nice and perhaps even fitting segue into oblivion for The Doors. These are both fine pieces of music, each with their own aura. Let's call it another tie.
Final tally is:
DP: 1 win, 3 loss, 2 tie Doors: 3 win, 1 loss, 2 tie
There ya go, simple as pie.
Can you tell me where we're headin'?
Lincoln County Road or Armageddon.
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Points: 17777
Posted: April 14 2011 at 20:24
jammun wrote:
...
Shades of DP vs. The Doors Doors win. Shades of is a decent enough album, but really, Hush better than Light My Fire? Ain't happenin'.
...
Well, the long version of the song the Doors win by 10k miles ... the AM version of the song at some 2 minutes plus ... would probably give DP a slight nudge ... in the butt!
Book of Taliesyn vs. Strange Days Really early instance of "well the first album was good, let's do it again", in the case of The Doors. Really early instance of "well we wrote a couple good songs but need some filler, why not go with a Neil Diamond song", in the case of DP. Doors win.
...
Wow ... someone that has actually heard the albums! ... I'm enjoying this.
In Rock vs. The Soft Parade. Worst Doors album vs. one of the finest rock albums ever made. It's a fact, Mt. Rushmore-esquly carve in pure stone, In Rock rules, and is the best of either bands output.
The Soft Parade is the one album that is ... very hard to get on with ... but it is one of the most important ones ... because The Doors makes a lot more sense after you are capable of making sense of the title piece and what it is about ... in the end, this is what the Doors is about ... but few people are capable of getting past poetry, a very harsh scream, and then ... the best part of the trip ... and the three of htese on the same breath and piece is ... down right scary and something that most people are not gonna deal with and going to listen to Jenny got a gun, or Hush hush, or Smoke on the Water ... is much easier and fun ... than the other content ... that you and most of us ... have absolutely no idea what the hell it is all about, and neither do the other three Doors members, and neither is anyone being strong enough to discuss the poetry and its value and continuity and even possible conceptual nature.
Basically, we ear something like this ... and we turn it off ... because it is scary and weird ... but some folks will go listen to Comus instead! ... like that's any different or worse! Or better!
Machine Head vs. L.A. Woman
Not even close ... Riders on the Storm and the title song alone are worth it.
And I'm not sure that progressive and other music is all about the "riff" makes it better or more important. Smoke On The Water is a nice radio song ... but it stops there ... it has nothing else of value whatsoever. Lyrically unimportant on top of it!
With all due respect. in my book, DP was just a radio, rock music band. I do think, and you might see the recent film done on The Doors, that there was more to the band than just a bunch of songs for the radio. As Jim once screamed ... has this dream stopped .... ? ... drumm rolll ... crash ... scream ... music! ... and Deep Purple ... were never that important with anything they did in my book. Not even interesting artistically ... but yes, they were very well known and people loved them ... and they had a few hits and sold well!
Wow ... sales count! and the more folks that have heard it the more some think it was good ... and it's not necessarily true, I don't think.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 28377
Posted: April 15 2011 at 02:04
Logan wrote:
richardh wrote:
BaldFriede wrote:
richardh wrote:
One band that has me scurrying to the off switch on the radio is The Doors. Them and Iggy Pop.
Deep Purple get my vote although anything (other than Iggy Pop) versus The Doors would get my vote.
Well, I knew our tastes are different, but switching off whenever the Doors appear on the radio? They made some truly brilliant songs, and I actually like their short ones too, not only those that have prog length. Your taste really is weird.
I suspect the opposite is true and that my taste is rather boring and safe. Never really got The Doors and part of the problem is that there are only about 4 songs of theirs that I'm familiar with:
Light My Fire
Riders On The Storm
City At Night
People Are Strange
Light My Fire is okay I admit. I probably would keep the radio on for that one. Riders gets loads of praise yet Morrison's voice just sounds 'shot' to me and most of the song is Manzarek tinkling away on a piano and the sound of rain in the background.
City At Night gets load of play on Planet Rock but I find it just very dull.
People Are Strange - well that sums me up I guess
I just find The Doors very underwelming in general and because I only ever hear the same 4 songs on the radio ,makes me wonder why that are considered to be so great in the grand scheme of things.
I wonder if you ever skipped parts of Apocalypse Now due to The End?
I do have the flim on DVD which I like.In the context of a film its okay. I also enjoyed Trainspotting which wasn't spoilt by Iggy Pop either.
Joined: September 07 2007
Location: Middle-Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 4214
Posted: April 15 2011 at 02:20
Why anybody don´t continue a comparison of another Doors´ and Purple´s albums?
(I cannot make it because I don´t know last three Doors´ studio and no live ones.)
Other Voices vs. Who Do We Think We Are?
Full Circle vs. Burn?
An American Prayer vs. Stormbringer?
Absolutely Live vs. Concerto For Group And Orchestra?
Alive, She Cried vs. Made In Japan?
Live At The Hollywood Bowl vs. Made In Europe?
In Concert vs. Last Concert In Japan?
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
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The Doors vs. Deep Purple
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harmonium.ro wrote:
Open the gates of the city wide....
