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Atavachron ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 65882 |
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the Oppenheimer Syndrome |
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Equality 7-2521 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
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Kind of makes you optimistic doesn't it?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
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You're preaching to the choir here. Not to be a libertarian conspiracy nut but do you really think it's just a coincidence that these words have gradually changed in meaning? The libertarian/individualist/freedom lover/hater of state aggression is at a loss of words to even properly express his opinion. Anarchy has become equivalent to chaos. Individualism equivalent to selfishness. Welfare equivalent to charity. Anti-war equivalent to pro-terrorist. You're at a disadvantage from the beginning because of the way words have been twisted. I think I've posted this over 100 times here but, there is absolutely nothing moral about commanding that money be taken from some people and given to others. You can claim no moral high ground. It's an approach of the lazy who want to feel good without sacrifice. The question is always asked: How will the poor be helped in a free society? The question is never asked: How are the poor helped in our society? People don't realize that libertarianism tends to be much less selfish in nature than it is empathetic in nature. I went on a tirade before about how I'm not a libertarian because of my personal experience. I belong to a privileged class in the world. I'm a libertarian because of all the faceless victims of governments throughout the history of mankind. Edited by Equality 7-2521 - February 09 2011 at 22:58 |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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thellama73 ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
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I am just stunned that between the five or six libertarians on this site we manage to actually convert someone. That has seriously never happened to me before. I guess strength in numbers, huh?
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Padraic ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
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Teo freaking pwns this thread.
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The T ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
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When "individualism" became a bad word, and somehow got put in the dictionary as a synonym of "selfishness", the battle for the moral ground got kinda lost. Media uses this all the time. Damn, I used it a lot. The thing is, the libertarian society is the best for BOTH the selfish and the generous one. For the selfish, it allows him to be that way. For the generous, it allows him to be that way, free of forced payments that go wasted, he can devote his resources to help. The socialist society makes the generous one get lazy because he thinks "he's already helping with his taxes", and the selfish... well, he just joins the Party.
Edited by The T - February 09 2011 at 22:49 |
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Equality 7-2521 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
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Warning Disturbing Content
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
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As you can see, this is a politics-debate thread with an emphasis in discussing the role of government and its contrast with freedom. And as you can see, lately I've been hijacking it
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Equality 7-2521 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
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Most statists are people with the best intentions in mind. This is particularly what makes it so dangerous. The moral certitude which comes with good intentions makes the actions particularly scary.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
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That very decent website about anarcho-capitalism has a full page devoted to fallacies of every kind. Quite interesting. I've fallen for pretty much all of them at some point
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The T ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
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I'm pretty sure I'll end right there. I have had dreams of a society like that. Somehow I got very confused by my own ridiculous fears in the process and ended up supporting a totally free society, in which freedom meant "leaving your decisions in somebody else's hands, who would feed you, cure you, give you a roof, and defend you". I don't know where the hell did I miss the part where such a benevolent being that I imagined actually would need to have total control over me and my actions and my goals and my means to achieve them. Well, I guess is every hard socialist's dilemma: for the world to be just like one wants it to be, the one has to become THE One. And as this is impossible, the only way is to support a "WE" that actually eliminates any other different-thinking "one". I'm heading down the lunacy road...
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The T ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
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Not so different of what we're doing right now... minus the "eliminate all taxes" part...
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manofmystery ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 26 2008 Location: PA, USA Status: Offline Points: 4335 |
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You know, your "magical fairies" are government officials. You believe in them like they can take care of everything yet their ability to do so is nonexistant. People do not need real rulers or fictional beings to live.
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![]() Time always wins. |
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Equality 7-2521 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
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This is what is called a non-argument directing following the very real argument made by llama. Class please notice the expert use of the false dichotomy.
Edited by Equality 7-2521 - February 09 2011 at 21:34 |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Padraic ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
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No problem; though we can get a bit silly/off-topic here at times, we do try to stick to substantive discussion. The linked thread is really the only "chat" thread permitted.
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ThaNuke ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: February 05 2011 Status: Offline Points: 29 |
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I'm guessing that is a thread for just about any sort of discussion? I kinda thought this one was with the way you worded your former post. Thanks for redirecting me to a more appropriate thread, though. |
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WON'T YOU COME INTO MY ROOM
I WANNA SHOW YOU ALL MY WARES |
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Padraic ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
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If you really want to place to hang out, here is where all the cool kids hang out.
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ThaNuke ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: February 05 2011 Status: Offline Points: 29 |
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EDIT: Wrong thread. Woops.
Edited by ThaNuke - February 09 2011 at 21:22 |
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WON'T YOU COME INTO MY ROOM
I WANNA SHOW YOU ALL MY WARES |
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Padraic ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
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A little of both.
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ThaNuke ![]() Forum Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: February 05 2011 Status: Offline Points: 29 |
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I'm not sure as to whether this thread is about the actual ideology or random discussion.
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