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Topic ClosedLibertarian Thread #2: We Shall Never Die!

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The T View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2011 at 23:13
Maher? He's extremely statist. He explicitly says the US should be like northern Europe. He's quite a socialist. Yet he defends pot and other personal freedoms. How he can achive the latter with a state-ruled world I can't see.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2011 at 23:14
By the way, I finally went to a shootig range and fired a gun. I chose a revolver for my first time. I'm a natural it seems, I had pretty good aim. Next time I'll try something bigger and that requires more strength. And soon I'll finally have my own.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 01:56
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Please convince my friend that he is a statist pig a****le. 


Who? Maher?
Oh yeah, I NEVER got how he was labeled as Libertarian.
Maybe because he said so, thus everyone went with it.

For you Pat most people are statist's LOL but he is pretty much a mainstream progressive. I say that because he seems pretty damn liberal.

Edit: Yeah Teo, he is the definition of self serving. 100% gung ho on legalizing weed but he doesn't even pretend to really care. Totally self serving in his belief. And the economic beliefs he does hold that may be in line libertarianism I'm positive he does not hold because of freedom, but out of hating businesses.

And politics aside, he IS a pig a****le.


Edited by JJLehto - February 06 2011 at 02:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 02:06
I say that fully admitting I used to be in line with him.
I've made the admission, with some shame Embarrassed, I was pretty much a Socialist in HS.
So much so I didn't care a lick about business, and in fact was secretly OK with the idea of punishing them.

Y'all know I believe in regulation and all that evil jazz but I no longer feel the way I do about bigger businesses.
More of a "necessity" thing than punishment now. I'm warmed up greatly to much lesser corporate tax, and taking measures to try and keep them in the country as much as possible. They are needed.

Of course still feel strongly in my support of smaller and local business.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 07:36
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

I say that fully admitting I used to be in line with him.
I've made the admission, with some shame Embarrassed, I was pretty much a Socialist in HS.
So much so I didn't care a lick about business, and in fact was secretly OK with the idea of punishing them.

Y'all know I believe in regulation and all that evil jazz but I no longer feel the way I do about bigger businesses.
More of a "necessity" thing than punishment now. I'm warmed up greatly to much lesser corporate tax, and taking measures to try and keep them in the country as much as possible. They are needed.

Of course still feel strongly in my support of smaller and local business.


I find the discrimination between small and big businesses to be kind of weird and arbitrary.  Aren't most "big" businesses just "small" businesses that survived and expanded over time?

Nobody ever seems to think that maybe a lot of Ma & Pop shops are failing not necessarily because of "big" business per se, but because technology is greatly changing the way consumers consume.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 09:45
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

By the way, I finally went to a shootig range and fired a gun. I chose a revolver for my first time. I'm a natural it seems, I had pretty good aim. Next time I'll try something bigger and that requires more strength. And soon I'll finally have my own.

Very cool. I still must do this.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 09:46
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 11:10
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Here's a pretty nice article of Murray Rothbard absolutely tearing apart Reagan. 

Looks like a good article.  I'll read it.  The Republicans' fixation on Reagan is absolutely mind-boggling, especially since there have been better Republican candidates/presidents in the past.  I don't get it.

On another note, I've never fired a gun either, and I don't really see the need to acquire one right now.  But I know I'm safer in a society where guns are legal, which is reason enough for me to advocate for continued legalization and less strict regulations.

EDIT: They're legal now, but regulated.  Just fixed how I expressed my point..


Edited by Hanyou - February 06 2011 at 11:27
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 11:24
It's funny how the American people fall in love with charisma.  It happened with Reagan, it arguably happened with Clinton, and it's happening now.  Anyone who is able to inspire optimism and hope (especially after a terrible president has been in power) is welcomed with open arms and his faults are brushed aside.

What's the first thing we learn about FDR?  "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."  Kennedy? "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Reagan? "Tear down this wall."  Children learn to recite Lincoln's whole Gettysburg Address, without knowing or caring what it means.

We're bred to fall in love with quotes.

I think Rothbard got why people loved Reagan so much: it was his capacity to act, to memorize lines, to be a blank slate.  Obama doesn't have his lines memorized and his policies are different, but his voice is lovely and he has such great diction!  He inspires hope, policies be damned.

For a long time, I've thought Americans were simply misguided about what the government's role should be.  I'm finding now that it's far worse; some are misguided, most are just in love.  They treat elections like they treat Hollywood stars.  They love to love and hate. How else do you explain the phenomena of Palin, Obama, Reagan?


Edited by Hanyou - February 06 2011 at 11:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 13:52
I agree. It is very strange. Then again given how reality tv has become so prominent in our culture, I think I can see it more clearly. 

I learned to hate Kennedy just because of that quote. It's pure statism. The individual should live only to serve the state. Those who think of their own livelihood over the glorification of the empire are selfish. It's disgusting. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 13:58
If I became President, I would drink a lot.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 14:01
So what would be different?
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 14:03
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

I agree. It is very strange. Then again given how reality tv has become so prominent in our culture, I think I can see it more clearly. 

I learned to hate Kennedy just because of that quote. It's pure statism. The individual should live only to serve the state. Those who think of their own livelihood over the glorification of the empire are selfish. It's disgusting. 

It creates a bizarre false dichotomy that pretty much shuts down philosophical thought.  There are alternatives.  That said, I'd rather err on the side of the former than the latter, simply because if a country (which I'm assuming is synonymous with government for the purposes of this quote) exists, it must have some reason for its existence, and that reason must be that it serves the interests of the individuals therein.

Of course, usually, they're just two sides of the same coin.  They both lead to a war-hungry welfare state.

FDR's quote is more interesting and less surprising to me.  It's just nonsense.  It sort of reminds me of Yoda's "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering" quote, which says a good deal about how substantive it is.  In context, it's the classic progressive crap.  Never inhibit progress, even if we're progressing towards the edge of a mile-deep canyon.  What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 14:07
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

So what would be different?


Less government spending.

My Cabinet would consist of Mr. Adams, Mr. Beam, Mr. Daniel, Mr. Walker, and Mr. Cuervo. (Gotta be multicultural ya know).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 14:07
FDR's quote is just mindless bs that sounds deep so people latch onto it. JFK's quote actually says something very specific, and it scares me that people adopt it as something which we should follow.

I can't believe that this country views FDR as anything less than a mindless, self-centered, buffoon of a despot. 


"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 14:08
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

So what would be different?


Less government spending.

My Cabinet would consist of Mr. Adams, Mr. Beam, Mr. Daniel, Mr. Walker, and Mr. Cuervo. (Gotta be multicultural ya know).

You could probably win my vote with that platform.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 14:10
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

So what would be different?


Less government spending.

My Cabinet would consist of Mr. Adams, Mr. Beam, Mr. Daniel, Mr. Walker, and Mr. Cuervo. (Gotta be multicultural ya know).

You could probably win my vote with that platform.


I wonder what would happen if a President just said, "I refuse to approve any budget that isn't at least balanced.  Here are some scissors."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 14:16
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

So what would be different?
Less government spending.My Cabinet would consist of Mr. Adams, Mr. Beam, Mr. Daniel, Mr. Walker, and Mr. Cuervo. (Gotta be multicultural ya know).
You got an illegal mexican in there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 14:19
Originally posted by Hanyou Hanyou wrote:

It's funny how the American people fall in love with charisma.  It happened with Reagan, it arguably happened with Clinton, and it's happening now.  Anyone who is able to inspire optimism and hope (especially after a terrible president has been in power) is welcomed with open arms and his faults are brushed aside.

What's the first thing we learn about FDR?  "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."  Kennedy? "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Reagan? "Tear down this wall."  Children learn to recite Lincoln's whole Gettysburg Address, without knowing or caring what it means.

We're bred to fall in love with quotes.

I think Rothbard got why people loved Reagan so much: it was his capacity to act, to memorize lines, to be a blank slate.  Obama doesn't have his lines memorized and his policies are different, but his voice is lovely and he has such great diction!  He inspires hope, policies be damned.

For a long time, I've thought Americans were simply misguided about what the government's role should be.  I'm finding now that it's far worse; some are misguided, most are just in love.  They treat elections like they treat Hollywood stars.  They love to love and hate. How else do you explain the phenomena of Palin, Obama, Reagan?

Excellent post! I agree whole heartedly; the reasons behind people's choices come voting time are absolutely INSANE. These same people who vote on arbitrary elements such as "I like that name better" or "he sounds confident!" with no further critical thinking are the reason why this country is ruled by tyranny. These people are quick to remind you that you need to see American Idol, Jersey Shore, etc because they are literally living breathing NPC's. Background characters with their blindfolds on, submitting to authority. Do you know why? Because the state controls education. With this stranglehold, they can control what you know/why/and how. The most formative years of life are spent blindly obeying authority (teachers) to prep you for "the real world".

This is because the same people who control the state control parasitic corporations that feed off of what they sh*t out. It's a self-serving cycle so the oil tycoons can keep the power monopoly going under the guise of social and political progress. Schools either turn out worker drones or welfare recipients, which gives the state an excuse to keep it's unnecessary grasp on society. Every end is pre-planned; humans live in numbered filing cabinets (which they need the banks approval to own, of course) and don't even realize it.

When you are born INTO A PRISON, your perceptions are biased from the moment your eyes open. The truth is, America is a giant petri-dish full of un-aware, under-educated/indoctrinated (yes, even with a Masters Degree, you can still be extremely un-educated in critical thinking and TRUE government affairs), emotionally/sexually charged highly-evolved primates. Worst part is, all these people ARE MAKING THE CHOICES THAT PERPETUATE IT ALL! That's right, take all of the above and mix it with "democracy" and you have a world that is entirely in their favor. An under-informed public is virtually guaranteed to make erroneous choices over and over and over...

Personal integrity and the honest quest for truth is the only hope of freedom anyone has. Turn off your TV; hell, throw it out the window! No job you could ever have will completely separate you from the system, because said system sells you college as "the straight path" through life. Most people with degrees never reach their full potential in their field (in the past maybe, but todays college graduate is actually worse off having gone) because little did they know, the system just sucked another dollar that could have been better spent elsewhere. In an attempt to get ahead by the systems standards of success, you continue to dig into the well of debt. 

Congratulations, you just literally purchased the only dream you were sold.

All of this social and political enthusiasm under the guise of morality; it makes me sick to my stomach when people work jobs they hate to pay for sh*t they don't really need (all the while the greedy f**ks upstairs have their pockets over flowing), then insist "this is a free country; at least it isn't communist China!".


Edited by AllP0werToSlaves - February 06 2011 at 14:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 06 2011 at 14:22
 Pat, it's too far back for me to find it, but my hate is absolute because there's always more hate. I don't max out, so a sliding scale isn't necessary.
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

I wonder what would happen if a President just said, "I refuse to approve any budget that isn't at least balanced.  Here are some scissors."

Assuming he didn't cave on the game of chicken, probably bad things. It would be entertaining as hell, though. 
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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