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Poll Question: Should Buckethead be added to the site?
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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2010 at 17:01
I used to have a negative slant on this guitarist, because of his shredder moments and his Roses collaborations...
 
 but the two solo albums I've heard of him are lightly prog...
 
 
it's mostly when Buckethead plays in other people's albumůs that seems to bring out his proggier side (notably with Hellborg)
 
I wouldn't object anymore if he was included in PA 
let's just stay above the moral melee
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2010 at 17:41
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

I used to have a negative slant on this guitarist, because of his shredder moments and his Roses collaborations...
 
 but the two solo albums I've heard of him are lightly prog...
 
 
it's mostly when Buckethead plays in other people's albumůs that seems to bring out his proggier side (notably with Hellborg)
 
I wouldn't object anymore if he was included in PA 

Speaking of Hellborg, he is already here already.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2010 at 17:44
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

The very spirit of progressive is to violate rules

b : making use of or interested in new ideas, findings, or opportunities

Yes Tiimothy, I know sometimes we have to break rules, but everything has a limit.

If we let people add whoever they wanted, we would had already The Eagles (suggested), The Bee Gees (Suggested), Meat Loaf (Suggested), The Police (Suggested), U2 (Suggested), Toto (Suggested), etc

We need somebody to have the feet on the ground to keep this site Prog, because I believe that if Prog has survived, ie because always kept a safe distance from mainstream.

My problem with Buckethead is smaller than with other artists, but still important for me:

  1. He is mainly Metal and sort of Avant.....Prog Metal and Avant teams have rejected him, and we are tying to force his addition to other genre.
  2. He has more than 100 albums, a few of which may be related to Prog, but due to the fact that we should add all his discography, we would have in Prog AQrchives this artists:_
    1. Viggo Mortensen (Not even a musician)
    2. Travis Dickerson
    3. Guns & Roses
    4. Praxis
    5. Shin Terai
    6. DJ QBert
    7. Snoop Dogg
    8. etc
  3. Al what I heard by him, is IMO not related with Prog, even when it's obvious I haven't heard most of his works, but the experts of Avant and Prog Metal have spoken, and I trust them.
Those are my reasons.

Iván

(BTW: You are giving a definition of the word progressive from the dictionary that has no relation with the term Progressive Rock)
            
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Slartibartfast View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2010 at 18:00
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


  1. He has more than 100 albums, a few of which may be related to Prog, but due to the fact that we should add all his discography, we would have in Prog AQrchives this artists:_
    1. Viggo Mortensen (Not even a musician)
    2. Praxis


(BTW: You are giving a definition of the word progressive from the dictionary that has no relation with the term Progressive Rock)

It's kind of funny but when I first looked up his discography on the internet.  I was like Viggo Mortensen???  Isn't he that actor from Lord Of The Rings. LOL  I can not attest to Vigo being or not being a musician.  Praxis should be on this site though.  Also, you might want to check out Octave Of The Holy Innocents if you haven't.  You may enjoy that one.  The shreddier stuff he's done has gotten stale with me.  Still I think there are other of his solo albums that might appeal to you.

And yeah, it really bugs me when people try to equate the dictionary definition with the music.  Slightly related but not definitively.


Edited by Slartibartfast - December 29 2010 at 20:39
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2010 at 18:38
.


Edited by BubbaMc - December 29 2010 at 20:08
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2010 at 18:40
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

[QUOTE=timothy leary]
  1. Al what I heard by him, is IMO not related with Prog, even when it's obvious I haven't heard most of his works, but the experts of Avant and Prog Metal have spoken, and I trust them.


Again, please listen to the songs I've posted. If, after you've listened, you are denying that the music (wholly written by Buckethead) is progressive, then fine.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2010 at 19:29
I was not trying to equate the dictionary definition with prog rock, it was aimed at "rules", where in my post is prog rock mentioned??


The very spirit of progressive is to violate rules

b : making use of or interested in new ideas, findings, or opportunities

Do you see mention of prog rock in the above??

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2010 at 20:39
Could we just add the bucket and leave out the head?

I think I may have already done this, but here is my take on my solo titled Bucketheads:
Giant Robot - nice debut.
Colma - nice and mellow.
Monsters and Robots - favorite so far.
Funnel Weaver - eh.
Bermuda Triangle - eh.
Electric Tears - nice and mellow, though less so than Colma perhaps.
Bucketheadland 2 - eh.
Cuckoo Clocks of Hell, The - really eh.
population override - eh.

By the way, eh = I wished I had listened to them before I bought them.  One listen would have been fine. 


Edited by Slartibartfast - December 29 2010 at 20:47
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 07:58
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:


population override - eh.

Have another listen Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 12:50
Why is this such a hard fight? I don't get it. This site has gone out of its way to be spuriously inclusive, but this is where the big stand is made? This is what I have determined based on certain PA additions.

Bjork - Everything is prog
Tori Amos - Everything is rock
Metallica - Nothing else matters
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 12:52
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Why is this such a hard fight? I don't get it.


It isn't as much as hard fight as it is a difficult artist to evaluate (too large and too diverse an output).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 13:00
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Why is this such a hard fight? I don't get it.


It isn't as much as hard fight as it is a difficult artist to evaluate (too large and too diverse an output).


I completely understand. I would have a similar problem with Senmuth.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 13:05
Put him in Prog-Related because he easily meets that definition, but I don't know if he really fits anywhere else anyway. He's certainly an artist prog-heads can enjoy, and having our reviewers rate the albums and allow people some idea of where they want to spend their time and money would be nice.
 
As to Ivan's argument, Whitesnake is not here despite Steve Vai playing for them, nor are the Yardbirds despite Jeff Beck's work with them.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 13:38
^yes the argument to include Bhead would open the door to all the folks who have appeared on his album on the surface seems correct but a lot of prog artists have included artists from other genres on their albums, two that come to mind are Santana and Steve Hackett, we all know when Willie Nelson sings on Santana's Havana Moon that willie is not a prog artist and the same for Richie Havens on Steve Hacketts album, to placate Ivan we can rest assured that Bhead is not in any way symphonic, and as you stated it would be nice to have reviewers respond to the cases where Bhead is showing his progressive side, I am not a die hard fan but I sure like his collaboration on Octave and Colma has always been a favorite album
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 14:18
At the end of the day it is not up to me what artists are included here and I am quite satisfied with the job done of adding artists to the site, so..........I will take the good advice and drop out of the Buckethead controversy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2010 at 14:58
Originally posted by timothy leary timothy leary wrote:

^yes the argument to include Bhead would open the door to all the folks who have appeared on his album on the surface seems correct but a lot of prog artists have included artists from other genres on their albums, two that come to mind are Santana and Steve Hackett, we all know when Willie Nelson sings on Santana's Havana Moon that willie is not a prog artist and the same for Richie Havens on Steve Hacketts album, to placate Ivan we can rest assured that Bhead is not in any way symphonic, and as you stated it would be nice to have reviewers respond to the cases where Bhead is showing his progressive side, I am not a die hard fan but I sure like his collaboration on Octave and Colma has always been a favorite album


There's a huge difference Timothy

Willie Nelson is a GUEST in Havana Moon, you get the album and you see:

Carlos Santana Havana Moon album cover

Only Santana as author of the album, nobody else is added with him

Ritchie Havens is a GUEST in Please don't Touch (As Steve Walsh), you get the album and you see:

Steve Hackett Please Dont Touch! album cover

Only Steve Hackett as author, nobody else is added with him

Now you get some Buckethead albums and you sede:


Brain is officially in Prog Archives


Travis Dickerson is already in Prog Archives

The same goes with Viggo Mortenssen, Guns & Roses,, etc.

There's a difference between guest and co-author.

Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 02:57
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Why is this such a hard fight? I don't get it. This site has gone out of its way to be spuriously inclusive, but this is where the big stand is made? This is what I have determined based on certain PA additions.

Bjork - Everything is prog
Tori Amos - Everything is rock
Metallica - Nothing else matters
Hang on a second, hereAngry. It's not THIS SITE that has gone out of their wayt to include these artistes you cite. It is some fanboys using their colllabs status and abusing their prerogatives and privileges that incluuded these against 90% of the other collabs' better judgment (and dare I say the Admins' as well) to fit their own private agenda and include anything they like as prog,  thus making Xover a joke and become some kind of prog-related-related-related-related farce
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 04:32
who?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 09:44
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Why is this such a hard fight? I don't get it. This site has gone out of its way to be spuriously inclusive, but this is where the big stand is made? This is what I have determined based on certain PA additions.

Bjork - Everything is prog
Tori Amos - Everything is rock
Metallica - Nothing else matters
Hang on a second, hereAngry. It's not THIS SITE that has gone out of their wayt to include these artistes you cite. It is some fanboys using their colllabs status and abusing their prerogatives and privileges that incluuded these against 90% of the other collabs' better judgment (and dare I say the Admins' as well) to fit their own private agenda and include anything they like as prog,  thus making Xover a joke and become some kind of prog-related-related-related-related farce


I don't know Bjork well nor Metallica, but any controversial addition has to get approval from the higher ups.  I will only advocate for or oppose additions if I know their music well and I'll defend the addition of Tori to the end.  I don't see this site as being spuriously inclusive.  I do however see some people being seriously narrow minded.  As long as you have people of varying opinions and tastes there isn't a line you draw, it's more of weird twisty curve.  There's a huge gray area and that is the nature of music.  Deal with it. Angry LOL


Edited by Slartibartfast - December 31 2010 at 09:46
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2010 at 10:08
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

Why is this such a hard fight? I don't get it. This site has gone out of its way to be spuriously inclusive, but this is where the big stand is made? This is what I have determined based on certain PA additions.

Bjork - Everything is prog
Tori Amos - Everything is rock
Metallica - Nothing else matters
Hang on a second, hereAngry. It's not THIS SITE that has gone out of their wayt to include these artistes you cite. It is some fanboys using their colllabs status and abusing their prerogatives and privileges that incluuded these against 90% of the other collabs' better judgment (and dare I say the Admins' as well) to fit their own private agenda and include anything they like as prog,  thus making Xover a joke and become some kind of prog-related-related-related-related farce


I don't know Bjork well nor Metallica, but any controversial addition has to get approval from the higher ups.  I will only advocate for or oppose additions if I know their music well and I'll defend the addition of Tori to the end.  I don't see this site as being spuriously inclusive.  I do however see some people being seriously narrow minded.  As long as you have people of varying opinions and tastes there isn't a line you draw, it's more of weird twisty curve.  There's a huge gray area and that is the nature of music.  Deal with it. Angry LOL
No I wont have that! Whats wrong with Metallica! Big smile 
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