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Topic ClosedDefining Prog- The Eternal Question

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2010 at 09:47
I belive that Marillion summed it up in one line; "Constantly changing, becoming constant" Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2010 at 11:02
Upon hearing two tracks, I felt this would probably get into crossover. I don't know if this band was suggested earlier and rejected (and if that may be the motivation for her quasi-rant?).  

You - the OP - have asked a question whether Pink Floyd is prog. I don't know whether you are possibly unaware of them being on the archives or if you have asked how they can be called prog. Either way, with tracks like Interstellar Overdrive, Set Controls to the Heart of the Sun, Saucerful of Secrets and Echoes, they are one of the most important prog rock bands and that they have also released Brick in the Wall does not change this fact in the least. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2010 at 07:18
Listening to your music, I feel it fits into the prog genre, though I dont know which prog subgenre yet. Hope to hear an album for review some day.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2010 at 19:48
Originally posted by sararocksprog sararocksprog wrote:

 
It's worth mentioning that the perspectives we are sharing here are those of the music analyst... and surely not that of the layman or the uninformed. 


Laymen who would call Kenny G jazz, for instance?  I doubt that the layman's perspective was taken into account in discerning genres like hard bop and cool jazz.  I understand that the uninformed would, hypothetically, like to call something with a lot of Hammond prog (even though it could just as well be Deep Purple) but that is, well, an uninformed judgment and only adds to the confusion. 

The simplest definition of prog (that could be used to explain it to the uninitiated) is of a music style based predominantly in rock in which the compositions tend to be long and have extended sections and interludes.  More or less in line with the website's description of prog, that is. LOL It is still inaccurate and gives too much weight to stereotypes (Gentle Giant were definitely not defined by epics) but it is difficult to frame an accurate definition that can still be easily understood by anyone with little or no knowledge about prog.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2010 at 16:58
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by Tengent Tengent wrote:

Prog is to music as Howard Roark is to architecture.

And what Ayn Rand is to anuses and Rand Paul.
 
You guys got me Googling stuff like crazy... I didn't get this one though... Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2010 at 16:46
Originally posted by Tengent Tengent wrote:

Prog is to music as Howard Roark is to architecture.
 
I like that!!  Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2010 at 16:43
Quote take a listen to their stuff... what would you call it, if you could classify it.
 
 
I like it!
Thanks for the plug... but your link is mussed up... hee hee  LOL
 
 
It's worth mentioning that the perspectives we are sharing here are those of the music analyst... and surely not that of the layman or the uninformed.  As far as instruments and "sounds" characterizing styles of music... certainly in the passive listeners mind- which constitutes most of the population... they DO...but... ultimately... FORM is what defines style moreso than sounds.  Both deserve consideration as certain sounds, tones and instruments are indicative of certain styles and therefore do sometimes play a part in defining said style.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2010 at 16:40
Originally posted by Tengent Tengent wrote:

Prog is to music as Howard Roark is to architecture.

And what Ayn Rand is to anuses and Rand Paul.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2010 at 11:49
Prog is to music as Howard Roark is to architecture.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 20:54
Yeah, I think she said everything you just said only in different words.... and much more descriptive.  The reference to Fender Rhodes and Hammond and Moog, she said, was something characterized by "some".  She defined prog as the musical movements and elements in conceptual albums and long songs... bla bla bla... take a listen to their stuff... what would you call it, if you could classify it.
 
 
I like it!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 19:43
Classic prog is NOT characterized by Moog, Hammond or Fender. If it may have appeared that way to you, it is only because bands from the same era naturally sought out similar equipment.  Even Stevie Wonder used Moog and Fender in the 70s,  I am sure.   Unlike other genres, prog cannot be characterized by stylistic elements. No, this is not because we progheads are snobbish and live in ivory towers LOL, it's because it is not really a genre but more a reference to an approach to songwriting and imposing artificial boundaries on what is and what is not prog is not feasible. That said, while I have a clear idea of what is prog, I have no idea at all what this site considers prog except for the 70s where it seems that largely, only those bands who were considered prog rock in the 70s have been included anyway.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 17:05
Quote By the way, I would check out your stuff but lately I've been trying to avoid exploring new stuff.  Still, wish you the best of success in your musical endeavors.
 
No offense taken.  Thanks for your well wishes... Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 16:51
Some of us have a more narrow definition of what's prog and some are more broad minded.   Being 45 and a prog fan for most of my years, I just don't get hung up on it.  When I first got into prog it wasn't really a well defined genre anyway.  There was just the really good stuff and stuff that wasn't worth bothering with.  By the way, I would check out your stuff but lately I've been trying to avoid exploring new stuff.  Still, wish you the best of success in your musical endeavors.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 16:07
Originally posted by akaBona akaBona wrote:

Lots of good writings here, thank you. All I need to say is that:

Prog is in your heart, it's a kind of way of living.

Have Mercy!
hehe  LOL  Thank YOU for the comments... I concur... "Prog for Life!!"  I live my life very progressively... and YES... Have Mercy!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 16:03
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

 
I have not listened to your band Sara, so I offer no opinion on their prog credentials. As has been said though, do not allow a label of convenience ("Prog") to distract your band from recording the music you like making. Leave it to others to then worry about how it should be classified.
 
I feel like I may have come across as some "Prog Wanna-Be"... which obviously is NOT pretty... or you're just being nice ? Shocked... 
 
Regardless... I never set out to be "prog."  I feel like I kinda found out inadvertently that I have a progressive sensibility when it comes to producing music.  I'm just genuinely surprised at the difference of perspectives... but such is life. 
 
Obviously... as a band... we are seeking to be exposed to an appreciative audience which I now realize will be found among a variety of musical communities... and will be embraced more likely by music lovers who are not extremists in their love of one style or another.  Our style definitely posesses a broad range of influences... some of which may be considered decidedly "un-prog" to the prog purist...  Take a listen if you care and tell me what you think.  The first song has some rap in it so you may want to listen to a few tracks as they vary quite a bit stylistically from one another.  http://www.reverbnation.com/totalbsrocks
 
Thanks for your input and support.  I'm definitly going to keep doing MY thing... prog or not... Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 15:46
Well, I think you should all check out Sara's music and see if it is prog or not...
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 05:55
Lots of good writings here, thank you. All I need to say is that:

Prog is in your heart, it's a kind of way of living.

Have Mercy!


Edited by akaBona - December 13 2010 at 05:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 03:12

With Prog apparently being back in vogue, I think there is a tendency among marketing people to want to define their band as such, regardless of the music. Many more bands are being described as prog these days, the irony being that a few years ago they would probably have sued if they were given such a label!

Prog draws in a lot of influences, but simply because a band plays fusion, jazz, metal, Led Zeppelin covers or whatever does not make them prog.
 
This site must take some of the responsibility for the confusion surrounding what is genuinely prog. We have widened the boundaries significantly in terms of what gets on the site (too far in my personal opinion) and have many jazz, metal and "Crossover" artists (in particular) listed as prog who really should not be.
 
Nevertheless, the inclusion of some of the big names in theese fields brings people into the site, and allows us to direct them towards the genuine stuff. It is interesting that our top artists and albums solidly remain focused on the core prog bands.
 
I have not listened to your band Sara, so I offer no opinion on their prog credentials. As has been said though, do not allow a label of convenience ("Prog") to distract your band from recording the music you like making. Leave it to others to then worry about how it should be classified.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 01:07
Originally posted by Steven Brodziak Steven Brodziak wrote:

I've never thought of Led Zep as prog until recently. They were like heavy rock to me. But with songs like "No Quarter" yes, in my opinion it is prog. Chord changes, mood changes, instrumentation changes as well as vocal changes in a song can be prog. Not every song from the giants of prog ie. Genesis, Yes are prog. Even from selling England by the Pound you have "More Fool Me" a wonderful song but no prog imo. Today, Dream Theater does some prog. Transatlantic? Nearly 100% prog. Flower Kings the same. You are correct on pop description.
 
You know Prog when you hear it.
I hadn't thought of Zep as Prog either...to me they're in a class by themselves... although there are certainly elements of Prog in a number of their songs... and the fact that they struck me as somewhat thematic which is very theatrical and therefore Prog.
 
You are correct that plenty of categorically Prog  bands have produced decidedly un prog material.
 
I thought I knew what Prog was... but now I'm not sure I qualify as an authority on the subject
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2010 at 00:47
Originally posted by TheOppenheimer TheOppenheimer wrote:

if you consider yourself prog, maybe you're prog.

if you consider X band prog, maybe it's prog.

anyway, you should not fight for falling into the 'prog' label, but for making music that you love, and for loving the music that you make.

take it easy on yourself, no one can define a music genre, but anyone can create it
I appreciate your response. I don't mind if we're not categorically Prog by whomevers standards... definitely loving creating music that is certainly progressive and rockin' to ME!  Exclamation
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