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JLocke 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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 Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:59 |
 Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
So if the student would have missed one test because he crashed the car or something and obviously he couldn't have given you written notice previously, would you make an exception?
Anyway, I agree with your actions. Though the solution that Mom hinted at wouldn't be so impossible even with your libertarian ideals: after all, a fair exchange is a fair exchange.  |
Well I understand extenuating circumstances. I don't think showing up after missing two months saying stuff happened qualifies though.
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For awhile when I was in high school, I was looking after my grandfather, and the situation was rather capricious, unfortunately. There was once an instance when I had to stay at home with him at the last minute, and ended up missing a deadline for my history class. The next day, I walked up to my history teacher's desk and tried to explain to him why I had missed the previous lesson, and asked if there was anything I could take as an equivalent to or make-up test. He simply sat back in his chair and laughed.  Apparently, you and he would get on quite well.
Edited by JLocke - November 05 2010 at 15:02
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 15:01 |
Padraic wrote:
Student: "But if I can't make-up the tests what happens? Do you just like drop those grades?"
I've met a lot of students in my time, some smart and some not-so-smart. Every single one of them, without fail, realized that to miss a test meant receiving a grade of zero. |
Sorry to shatter your worldview
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 15:01 |
Padraic wrote:
Student: "But if I can't make-up the tests what happens? Do you just like drop those grades?"
I've met a lot of students in my time, some smart and some not-so-smart. Every single one of them, without fail, realized that to miss a test meant receiving a grade of zero. |
Would be good if teachers would just drop one test out of the radar when people miss them... Nothing would be easier than not showing up to any exams and then the teacher would have to make you pass the class irremediably
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 15:01 |
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
So why don't I think the same of people being given economic freedom? Why do I think that people, without a regulating body, would exploit and deceive in the for-profit free-market world? i guess it's because I see greed as something that society encourages. Society rewards the rich, rewards the ostentatious; society doesn't reward people who kill other people or lose their jobs stupidly... Because greed is seen as good and encouraged by the mainstream media, I see some people given full economic freedom trying to squeeze the last dollar out of their workers, their consumers, etc... I realized that yesterday. |
That's fine, but you assume that people gain money by exploiting others. With that Marxian assumption, your conclusions are understandable, but it's not rooted in anything.
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I don't assume that. But I assume that exploitation leads to quicker gain, and a greed-encouraging mentality favors quick gain, that's all... |
That's also a bad assumption. Markets arose in stark contrast the the exploitation and force of systems where goods and resources were gained from status or rights.
Could you justify this assumption?
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Money gives power. In today's world, people are very power-hungry. Also, quick money is instant gratification, something that is also very present in today's society. For some people (I'm not saying everybody) the best way to get their quick fix of money-power-gratification will be to abuse others... And the media tels people it's important to get rich quickly, not just to get rich. I'm just assuming some people, and not that few sadly, will go for the quick gain.
My fear is than in a society that encourages becoming rich instantly, some people who have grown up in said culture will be very likely to actually believe it and do whatever it takes. That's all.
Though I would say that this happens also in less individualist, success-driven societies... |
But how are these people abusing others without facing repercussions?
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Eventually they would. After all, long-term planning is not one of the skills that would be present in said people. But the damage to the abused employee (for example) would be done.
This is my main problem with libertarianism from a economical point of view. I'm just too concerned with greed blinding people... |
That person would be compensated. This removes the incentive to do harm as it will lead to negative profits comparatively.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 15:02 |
JLocke wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
So if the student would have missed one test because he crashed the car or something and obviously he couldn't have given you written notice previously, would you make an exception?
Anyway, I agree with your actions. Though the solution that Mom hinted at wouldn't be so impossible even with your libertarian ideals: after all, a fair exchange is a fair exchange. |
Well I understand extenuating circumstances. I don't think showing up after missing two months saying stuff happened qualifies though.
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One time when I was in high school, I was looking after my grandfather, and the situation was rather capricious, unfortunately. There was an instance when I had to stay at home with him at the last minute, and ended up missing a deadline for my history class. The next day, I walked up to my history teacher's desk and tried to explain to him why I had missed the previous lesson, and asked if there was anything I could take as an equivalent to or make-up test. He simply sat back in his chair and laughed. Apparently, you and he would get on quite well. |
Sometimes teachers might be less humane than employers... they're not getting anything in return anyway but a lot of idiotic questions!
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 15:04 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
So why don't I think the same of people being given economic freedom? Why do I think that people, without a regulating body, would exploit and deceive in the for-profit free-market world? i guess it's because I see greed as something that society encourages. Society rewards the rich, rewards the ostentatious; society doesn't reward people who kill other people or lose their jobs stupidly... Because greed is seen as good and encouraged by the mainstream media, I see some people given full economic freedom trying to squeeze the last dollar out of their workers, their consumers, etc... I realized that yesterday. |
That's fine, but you assume that people gain money by exploiting others. With that Marxian assumption, your conclusions are understandable, but it's not rooted in anything.
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I don't assume that. But I assume that exploitation leads to quicker gain, and a greed-encouraging mentality favors quick gain, that's all... |
That's also a bad assumption. Markets arose in stark contrast the the exploitation and force of systems where goods and resources were gained from status or rights.
Could you justify this assumption?
|
Money gives power. In today's world, people are very power-hungry. Also, quick money is instant gratification, something that is also very present in today's society. For some people (I'm not saying everybody) the best way to get their quick fix of money-power-gratification will be to abuse others... And the media tels people it's important to get rich quickly, not just to get rich. I'm just assuming some people, and not that few sadly, will go for the quick gain.
My fear is than in a society that encourages becoming rich instantly, some people who have grown up in said culture will be very likely to actually believe it and do whatever it takes. That's all.
Though I would say that this happens also in less individualist, success-driven societies... |
But how are these people abusing others without facing repercussions?
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Eventually they would. After all, long-term planning is not one of the skills that would be present in said people. But the damage to the abused employee (for example) would be done.
This is my main problem with libertarianism from a economical point of view. I'm just too concerned with greed blinding people... |
That person would be compensated. This removes the incentive to do harm as it will lead to negative profits comparatively.
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lack of long-term planning and lack of a view of future consequences would impede these people from seeing that what they do now will hurt them later....
Maybe Im too negative... 
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 4900
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 15:05 |
The T wrote:
JLocke wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
So if the student would have missed one test because he crashed the car or something and obviously he couldn't have given you written notice previously, would you make an exception?
Anyway, I agree with your actions. Though the solution that Mom hinted at wouldn't be so impossible even with your libertarian ideals: after all, a fair exchange is a fair exchange. |
Well I understand extenuating circumstances. I don't think showing up after missing two months saying stuff happened qualifies though.
|
One time when I was in high school, I was looking after my grandfather, and the situation was rather capricious, unfortunately. There was an instance when I had to stay at home with him at the last minute, and ended up missing a deadline for my history class. The next day, I walked up to my history teacher's desk and tried to explain to him why I had missed the previous lesson, and asked if there was anything I could take as an equivalent to or make-up test. He simply sat back in his chair and laughed. Apparently, you and he would get on quite well. |
Sometimes teachers might be less humane than employers... they're not getting anything in return anyway but a lot of idiotic questions! |
I just find it interesting that in my experience, so many teachers have been conditioned to assume their students dishonest regardless of their individual character.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 15:07 |
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
So why don't I think the same of people being given economic freedom? Why do I think that people, without a regulating body, would exploit and deceive in the for-profit free-market world? i guess it's because I see greed as something that society encourages. Society rewards the rich, rewards the ostentatious; society doesn't reward people who kill other people or lose their jobs stupidly... Because greed is seen as good and encouraged by the mainstream media, I see some people given full economic freedom trying to squeeze the last dollar out of their workers, their consumers, etc... I realized that yesterday. |
That's fine, but you assume that people gain money by exploiting others. With that Marxian assumption, your conclusions are understandable, but it's not rooted in anything.
|
I don't assume that. But I assume that exploitation leads to quicker gain, and a greed-encouraging mentality favors quick gain, that's all... |
That's also a bad assumption. Markets arose in stark contrast the the exploitation and force of systems where goods and resources were gained from status or rights.
Could you justify this assumption?
|
Money gives power. In today's world, people are very power-hungry. Also, quick money is instant gratification, something that is also very present in today's society. For some people (I'm not saying everybody) the best way to get their quick fix of money-power-gratification will be to abuse others... And the media tels people it's important to get rich quickly, not just to get rich. I'm just assuming some people, and not that few sadly, will go for the quick gain.
My fear is than in a society that encourages becoming rich instantly, some people who have grown up in said culture will be very likely to actually believe it and do whatever it takes. That's all.
Though I would say that this happens also in less individualist, success-driven societies... |
But how are these people abusing others without facing repercussions?
|
Eventually they would. After all, long-term planning is not one of the skills that would be present in said people. But the damage to the abused employee (for example) would be done.
This is my main problem with libertarianism from a economical point of view. I'm just too concerned with greed blinding people... |
That person would be compensated. This removes the incentive to do harm as it will lead to negative profits comparatively.
|
lack of long-term planning and lack of a view of future consequences would impede these people from seeing that what they do now will hurt them later....
Maybe Im too negative... |
Then they go out of business and are not around wrong. How would government correct your problem?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 15:09 |
JLocke wrote:
The T wrote:
JLocke wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
So if the student would have missed one test because he crashed the car or something and obviously he couldn't have given you written notice previously, would you make an exception?
Anyway, I agree with your actions. Though the solution that Mom hinted at wouldn't be so impossible even with your libertarian ideals: after all, a fair exchange is a fair exchange. |
Well I understand extenuating circumstances. I don't think showing up after missing two months saying stuff happened qualifies though.
|
One time when I was in high school, I was looking after my grandfather, and the situation was rather capricious, unfortunately. There was an instance when I had to stay at home with him at the last minute, and ended up missing a deadline for my history class. The next day, I walked up to my history teacher's desk and tried to explain to him why I had missed the previous lesson, and asked if there was anything I could take as an equivalent to or make-up test. He simply sat back in his chair and laughed. Apparently, you and he would get on quite well. |
Sometimes teachers might be less humane than employers... they're not getting anything in return anyway but a lot of idiotic questions! |
I just find it interesting that in my experience, so many teachers have been conditioned to assume their students dishonest regardless of their individual character. |
Because so many students take advantage of teachers. I'm all for making exceptions, but firm policies are needed.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 15:15 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
So why don't I think the same of people being given economic freedom? Why do I think that people, without a regulating body, would exploit and deceive in the for-profit free-market world? i guess it's because I see greed as something that society encourages. Society rewards the rich, rewards the ostentatious; society doesn't reward people who kill other people or lose their jobs stupidly... Because greed is seen as good and encouraged by the mainstream media, I see some people given full economic freedom trying to squeeze the last dollar out of their workers, their consumers, etc... I realized that yesterday. |
That's fine, but you assume that people gain money by exploiting others. With that Marxian assumption, your conclusions are understandable, but it's not rooted in anything.
|
I don't assume that. But I assume that exploitation leads to quicker gain, and a greed-encouraging mentality favors quick gain, that's all... |
That's also a bad assumption. Markets arose in stark contrast the the exploitation and force of systems where goods and resources were gained from status or rights.
Could you justify this assumption?
|
Money gives power. In today's world, people are very power-hungry. Also, quick money is instant gratification, something that is also very present in today's society. For some people (I'm not saying everybody) the best way to get their quick fix of money-power-gratification will be to abuse others... And the media tels people it's important to get rich quickly, not just to get rich. I'm just assuming some people, and not that few sadly, will go for the quick gain.
My fear is than in a society that encourages becoming rich instantly, some people who have grown up in said culture will be very likely to actually believe it and do whatever it takes. That's all.
Though I would say that this happens also in less individualist, success-driven societies... |
But how are these people abusing others without facing repercussions?
|
Eventually they would. After all, long-term planning is not one of the skills that would be present in said people. But the damage to the abused employee (for example) would be done.
This is my main problem with libertarianism from a economical point of view. I'm just too concerned with greed blinding people... |
That person would be compensated. This removes the incentive to do harm as it will lead to negative profits comparatively.
|
lack of long-term planning and lack of a view of future consequences would impede these people from seeing that what they do now will hurt them later....
Maybe Im too negative... |
Then they go out of business and are not around wrong.
How would government correct your problem?
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A governing body would just oversee that laws made by legislators to stop some abusive practices from occurring... For example, an employer making his workers work too much for too little... Unless the market is really full of job offers, there would be little chance of job mobility, and employees would have to stay under those conditions. The employer maximizes gain by paying less and making more, encouraged by the need for instant richness. If there is some kind of regulation, even without many job offers available, at least abuses would diminish.
I guess...
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 15:19 |
The T wrote:
A governing body would just oversee that laws made by legislators to stop some abusive practices from occurring... For example, an employer making his workers work too much for too little... Unless the market is really full of job offers, there would be little chance of job mobility, and employees would have to stay under those conditions. The employer maximizes gain by paying less and making more, encouraged by the need for instant richness. If there is some kind of regulation, even without many job offers available, at least abuses would diminish.
I guess... |
How do we calculate how much is too much work and how much is too little. Why does the government know this? Why does greed persuade someone in public office less than one not in public office? Big business and government have been working together since the Civil War. We routinely see government officials give in to greed. Why would you trust them with the power to make their abuses legal? You're assuming all this greed in the private realm, but assuming it doesn't exist in the public.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 23:04 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Had a great conversation with a student today I thought I'd share with people. The student got a 34 on the first test of the class. Then she stopped showing up for 2 months, missing two tests in the process. She walks into my office today:
Student: "Hey, I know I haven't been to class for awhile, but I was having some stuff going on. But yeah that's all done so I'm gonna start coming again. I was gonna drop, but I gotta pay for it anyway so I may as well start coming and get something."
Me: "That's a wise decision. Glad to hear it."
Student: "So I know I missed a test. I was thinking I could make that up in a few weeks after I have a chance to study."
Me: "You missed two tests."
Student: "Oh really? Oh I thought it was only one. So I have to make them both up I guess?"
Me: "Did you read the syllabus on the first day of class?"
Student: "What? Yeah, yeah I did."
Me: "Then you know no test make-ups will be given without notifying me on an official letterhead before the test."
Student: "But I wasn't in class, that's not fair."
Me: "Well yes, if you were in class the test make-up procedure wouldn't exactly be necessary."
Student: "But if I can't make-up the tests what happens? Do you just like drop those grades?"
Me: "No you fail the class."
Student: "What do you mean I fail? I'm coming to class now."
Me: "You mathematically cannot pass the class. I recommend you keep coming though as it well help you when you retake it next semester."
Student: Various curses, screaming, and storming out of my office.
Apparently I just sell grades. You pay for the class, and I write an A down on your transcript in the student's mind.
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Does this relate to politics in some way? Im too tired Just seems a like a lazy ass student to me. And official letterhead!? Damn, Pat you are so hardcore
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 23:54 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 06 2010 at 10:02 |
JJLehto wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Had a great conversation with a student today I thought I'd share with people. The student got a 34 on the first test of the class. Then she stopped showing up for 2 months, missing two tests in the process. She walks into my office today:
Student: "Hey, I know I haven't been to class for awhile, but I was having some stuff going on. But yeah that's all done so I'm gonna start coming again. I was gonna drop, but I gotta pay for it anyway so I may as well start coming and get something."
Me: "That's a wise decision. Glad to hear it."
Student: "So I know I missed a test. I was thinking I could make that up in a few weeks after I have a chance to study."
Me: "You missed two tests."
Student: "Oh really? Oh I thought it was only one. So I have to make them both up I guess?"
Me: "Did you read the syllabus on the first day of class?"
Student: "What? Yeah, yeah I did."
Me: "Then you know no test make-ups will be given without notifying me on an official letterhead before the test."
Student: "But I wasn't in class, that's not fair."
Me: "Well yes, if you were in class the test make-up procedure wouldn't exactly be necessary."
Student: "But if I can't make-up the tests what happens? Do you just like drop those grades?"
Me: "No you fail the class."
Student: "What do you mean I fail? I'm coming to class now."
Me: "You mathematically cannot pass the class. I recommend you keep coming though as it well help you when you retake it next semester."
Student: Various curses, screaming, and storming out of my office.
Apparently I just sell grades. You pay for the class, and I write an A down on your transcript in the student's mind.
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Does this relate to politics in some way?
Im too tired
Just seems a like a lazy ass student to me.
And official letterhead!? Damn, Pat you are so hardcore
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Who said posts here had to be on topic? ANARCHY!!!!!!!
Yes I don't accept "doctor's notes" that kids type up in Word using Clip Art as a reason to be excused from a test. Being a hardass is fun though.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 06 2010 at 10:56 |
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I was just reminded of a line from Chef on South Park: "There is a time and a place for everything, and that is college."
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 06 2010 at 11:13 |
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I wish I was more like Chef.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: November 06 2010 at 12:20 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I wish I was more like Chef. |
A half-man, half-machine, Darth Vader type who has an insatiable appetite for little boys?
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 Time always wins.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: November 06 2010 at 13:36 |
Yeah, actually being a hardass is kinda fun.
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I wish I was more like Chef. |
Well then!
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 06 2010 at 14:21 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: November 06 2010 at 15:23 |
^ that is no longer Chef
this is Chef now:
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Time always wins.
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