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Padraic 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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 Posted: November 05 2010 at 13:50 |
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* shakes head *
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 13:53 |
 Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Had a great conversation with a student today I thought I'd share with people. The student got a 34 on the first test of the class. Then she stopped showing up for 2 months, missing two tests in the process. She walks into my office today:
Student: "Hey, I know I haven't been to class for awhile, but I was having some stuff going on. But yeah that's all done so I'm gonna start coming again. I was gonna drop, but I gotta pay for it anyway so I may as well start coming and get something."
Me: "That's a wise decision. Glad to hear it."
Student: "So I know I missed a test. I was thinking I could make that up in a few weeks after I have a chance to study."
Me: "You missed two tests."
Student: "Oh really? Oh I thought it was only one. So I have to make them both up I guess?"
Me: "Did you read the syllabus on the first day of class?"
Student: "What? Yeah, yeah I did."
Me: "Then you know no test make-ups will be given without notifying me on an official letterhead before the test."
Student: "But I wasn't in class, that's not fair."
Me: "Well yes, if you were in class the test make-up procedure wouldn't exactly be necessary."
Student: "But if I can't make-up the tests what happens? Do you just like drop those grades?"
Me: "No you fail the class."
Student: "What do you mean I fail? I'm coming to class now."
Me: "You mathematically cannot pass the class. I recommend you keep coming though as it well help you when you retake it next semester."
Student: Various curses, screaming, and storming out of my office.
Apparently I just sell grades. You pay for the class, and I write an A down on your transcript in the student's mind.
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Wait, are you a college professor?
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 Time always wins.
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Trademark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 13:58 |
So when your students handle your class the same way you handle traffic court THEY become the stupid ones.
Right, we're all college professors at 23.
You were the student in the exchange of course. Only the gender was changed to protect the idiot.
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:01 |
Trademark wrote:
So when your students handle your class the same way you handle traffic court THEY become the stupid ones.
Right, we're all college professors at 23.
You were the student in the exchange of course. Only the gender was changed to protect the idiot. |
Wait, are you a jackass?
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Time always wins.
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Trademark
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
Status: Offline
Points: 1009
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:15 |
I'm the tame one in my family. You should meet the Old Man.
At best he's a grad student grading someone else's papers.
Edited by Trademark - November 05 2010 at 14:17
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:23 |
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He teaches algebra and business calculus at a community college. They'll let him teach real calculus after he has his degree in May. If you weren't such an incredible ass, you would realize that's it's not too difficult to get a CC job with some sort of advanced qualifications, they just pay you almost nothing.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:27 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
He teaches algebra and business calculus at a community college. They'll let him teach real calculus after he has his degree in May. If you weren't such an incredible ass, you would realize that's it's not too difficult to get a CC job with some sort of advanced qualifications, they just pay you almost nothing. |
I merely asked because if he were a professor then I've seen several movies in which professor and co-ed have solved a grading despites in quite a different manner. I was going to offer some helpful links for future reference. 
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Time always wins.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:32 |
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Well I was referring to Trademark. I think Pat's libertarian ideals would prevent him from such despicable behavior. ;-)
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:33 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Well I was referring to Trademark. I think Pat's libertarian ideals would prevent him from such despicable behavior. ;-) |
Speaking ot despicable behaviour: there's a very important birthday coming up for you, later this month
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Time always wins.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:43 |
Yes, yes, although she's making it hard by going outside wearing a white t-shirt without a bra...
Also, I think the sexuality of Who Owns My Heart was overstated. Sure, she's grinding in a club in a backless dress, writhing on a bed, and wearing '80s shoulderpads for some reason, but there's less skin than the Party in the USA video. And it's a really awful song, the only one so far that can match the reggae song from Hannah Montana 3.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:43 |
manofmystery wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Had a great conversation with a student today I thought I'd share with people. The student got a 34 on the first test of the class. Then she stopped showing up for 2 months, missing two tests in the process. She walks into my office today:
Student: "Hey, I know I haven't been to class for awhile, but I was having some stuff going on. But yeah that's all done so I'm gonna start coming again. I was gonna drop, but I gotta pay for it anyway so I may as well start coming and get something."
Me: "That's a wise decision. Glad to hear it."
Student: "So I know I missed a test. I was thinking I could make that up in a few weeks after I have a chance to study."
Me: "You missed two tests."
Student: "Oh really? Oh I thought it was only one. So I have to make them both up I guess?"
Me: "Did you read the syllabus on the first day of class?"
Student: "What? Yeah, yeah I did."
Me: "Then you know no test make-ups will be given without notifying me on an official letterhead before the test."
Student: "But I wasn't in class, that's not fair."
Me: "Well yes, if you were in class the test make-up procedure wouldn't exactly be necessary."
Student: "But if I can't make-up the tests what happens? Do you just like drop those grades?"
Me: "No you fail the class."
Student: "What do you mean I fail? I'm coming to class now."
Me: "You mathematically cannot pass the class. I recommend you keep coming though as it well help you when you retake it next semester."
Student: Various curses, screaming, and storming out of my office.
Apparently I just sell grades. You pay for the class, and I write an A down on your transcript in the student's mind.
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Wait, are you a college professor? |
Professor in what sense? I teach college courses at colleges. I'm only an adjunct though. I won't be on a professorship track until next year.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:45 |
Trademark wrote:
So when your students handle your class the same way you handle traffic court THEY become the stupid ones.
Right, we're all college professors at 23.
You were the student in the exchange of course. Only the gender was changed to protect the idiot. |
I'm a college professor at 22 actually. Do you have some vendetta against me? I never called the student stupid. I thought the sense of entitlement the student had was disgusting and unfortunately fostered by our current education system.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:46 |
Trademark wrote:
I'm the tame one in my family. You should meet the Old Man.
At best he's a grad student grading someone else's papers. |
At best you're jealous?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:48 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
So why don't I think the same of people being given economic freedom? Why do I think that people, without a regulating body, would exploit and deceive in the for-profit free-market world? i guess it's because I see greed as something that society encourages. Society rewards the rich, rewards the ostentatious; society doesn't reward people who kill other people or lose their jobs stupidly... Because greed is seen as good and encouraged by the mainstream media, I see some people given full economic freedom trying to squeeze the last dollar out of their workers, their consumers, etc... I realized that yesterday. |
That's fine, but you assume that people gain money by exploiting others. With that Marxian assumption, your conclusions are understandable, but it's not rooted in anything.
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I don't assume that. But I assume that exploitation leads to quicker gain, and a greed-encouraging mentality favors quick gain, that's all... |
That's also a bad assumption. Markets arose in stark contrast the the exploitation and force of systems where goods and resources were gained from status or rights.
Could you justify this assumption?
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Money gives power. In today's world, people are very power-hungry. Also, quick money is instant gratification, something that is also very present in today's society. For some people (I'm not saying everybody) the best way to get their quick fix of money-power-gratification will be to abuse others... And the media tels people it's important to get rich quickly, not just to get rich. I'm just assuming some people, and not that few sadly, will go for the quick gain.
My fear is than in a society that encourages becoming rich instantly, some people who have grown up in said culture will be very likely to actually believe it and do whatever it takes. That's all.
Though I would say that this happens also in less individualist, success-driven societies...
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:52 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Had a great conversation with a student today I thought I'd share with people. The student got a 34 on the first test of the class. Then she stopped showing up for 2 months, missing two tests in the process. She walks into my office today:
Student: "Hey, I know I haven't been to class for awhile, but I was having some stuff going on. But yeah that's all done so I'm gonna start coming again. I was gonna drop, but I gotta pay for it anyway so I may as well start coming and get something."
Me: "That's a wise decision. Glad to hear it."
Student: "So I know I missed a test. I was thinking I could make that up in a few weeks after I have a chance to study."
Me: "You missed two tests."
Student: "Oh really? Oh I thought it was only one. So I have to make them both up I guess?"
Me: "Did you read the syllabus on the first day of class?"
Student: "What? Yeah, yeah I did."
Me: "Then you know no test make-ups will be given without notifying me on an official letterhead before the test."
Student: "But I wasn't in class, that's not fair."
Me: "Well yes, if you were in class the test make-up procedure wouldn't exactly be necessary."
Student: "But if I can't make-up the tests what happens? Do you just like drop those grades?"
Me: "No you fail the class."
Student: "What do you mean I fail? I'm coming to class now."
Me: "You mathematically cannot pass the class. I recommend you keep coming though as it well help you when you retake it next semester."
Student: Various curses, screaming, and storming out of my office.
Apparently I just sell grades. You pay for the class, and I write an A down on your transcript in the student's mind.
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So if the student would have missed one test because he crashed the car or something and obviously he couldn't have given you written notice previously, would you make an exception?
Anyway, I agree with your actions. Though the solution that Mom hinted at wouldn't be so impossible even with your libertarian ideals: after all, a fair exchange is a fair exchange. 
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:53 |
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
So why don't I think the same of people being given economic freedom? Why do I think that people, without a regulating body, would exploit and deceive in the for-profit free-market world? i guess it's because I see greed as something that society encourages. Society rewards the rich, rewards the ostentatious; society doesn't reward people who kill other people or lose their jobs stupidly... Because greed is seen as good and encouraged by the mainstream media, I see some people given full economic freedom trying to squeeze the last dollar out of their workers, their consumers, etc... I realized that yesterday. |
That's fine, but you assume that people gain money by exploiting others. With that Marxian assumption, your conclusions are understandable, but it's not rooted in anything.
|
I don't assume that. But I assume that exploitation leads to quicker gain, and a greed-encouraging mentality favors quick gain, that's all... |
That's also a bad assumption. Markets arose in stark contrast the the exploitation and force of systems where goods and resources were gained from status or rights.
Could you justify this assumption?
|
Money gives power. In today's world, people are very power-hungry. Also, quick money is instant gratification, something that is also very present in today's society. For some people (I'm not saying everybody) the best way to get their quick fix of money-power-gratification will be to abuse others... And the media tels people it's important to get rich quickly, not just to get rich. I'm just assuming some people, and not that few sadly, will go for the quick gain.
My fear is than in a society that encourages becoming rich instantly, some people who have grown up in said culture will be very likely to actually believe it and do whatever it takes. That's all.
Though I would say that this happens also in less individualist, success-driven societies... |
But how are these people abusing others without facing repercussions?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:54 |
The T wrote:
So if the student would have missed one test because he crashed the car or something and obviously he couldn't have given you written notice previously, would you make an exception?
Anyway, I agree with your actions. Though the solution that Mom hinted at wouldn't be so impossible even with your libertarian ideals: after all, a fair exchange is a fair exchange. |
Well I understand extenuating circumstances. I don't think showing up after missing two months saying stuff happened qualifies though.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:56 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
So if the student would have missed one test because he crashed the car or something and obviously he couldn't have given you written notice previously, would you make an exception?
Anyway, I agree with your actions. Though the solution that Mom hinted at wouldn't be so impossible even with your libertarian ideals: after all, a fair exchange is a fair exchange. |
Well I understand extenuating circumstances. I don't think showing up after missing two months saying stuff happened qualifies though.
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Of course. That's why I said I agree with your actions. I had to check to see if you were human or just a robot posting for Shields you know, like those anti-spam word codes you have to enter sometimes in websites...
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:57 |
Student: "But if I can't make-up the tests what happens? Do you just like drop those grades?"
I've met a lot of students in my time, some smart and some not-so-smart. Every single one of them, without fail, realized that to miss a test meant receiving a grade of zero.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: November 05 2010 at 14:58 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
So why don't I think the same of people being given economic freedom? Why do I think that people, without a regulating body, would exploit and deceive in the for-profit free-market world? i guess it's because I see greed as something that society encourages. Society rewards the rich, rewards the ostentatious; society doesn't reward people who kill other people or lose their jobs stupidly... Because greed is seen as good and encouraged by the mainstream media, I see some people given full economic freedom trying to squeeze the last dollar out of their workers, their consumers, etc... I realized that yesterday. |
That's fine, but you assume that people gain money by exploiting others. With that Marxian assumption, your conclusions are understandable, but it's not rooted in anything.
|
I don't assume that. But I assume that exploitation leads to quicker gain, and a greed-encouraging mentality favors quick gain, that's all... |
That's also a bad assumption. Markets arose in stark contrast the the exploitation and force of systems where goods and resources were gained from status or rights.
Could you justify this assumption?
|
Money gives power. In today's world, people are very power-hungry. Also, quick money is instant gratification, something that is also very present in today's society. For some people (I'm not saying everybody) the best way to get their quick fix of money-power-gratification will be to abuse others... And the media tels people it's important to get rich quickly, not just to get rich. I'm just assuming some people, and not that few sadly, will go for the quick gain.
My fear is than in a society that encourages becoming rich instantly, some people who have grown up in said culture will be very likely to actually believe it and do whatever it takes. That's all.
Though I would say that this happens also in less individualist, success-driven societies... |
But how are these people abusing others without facing repercussions?
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Eventually they would. After all, long-term planning is not one of the skills that would be present in said people. But the damage to the abused employee (for example) would be done.
This is my main problem with libertarianism from a economical point of view. I'm just too concerned with greed blinding people...
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