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Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10680
Posted: October 13 2010 at 15:09
Dean wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
Dean wrote:
sohraab wrote:
and the point is that even pop music at that period was far better than today`s. Abba and Bonny M are deserved to be listened (as i listen to them some times!) but LADY GAGA!!! NO WAY!!!i call 70`s the golden age. not just music but as i mentioned, also theater, cinema, philosophy and even sport was at its peak at that time (Look back at football world cup 1970, its unrepeatable) it`s about 2 years that i`m preparing the material for a book titled: Golden 70`s. hopefully will be finished at next summer...
I think you are wrong - the pop music of then was just as bad and just as good as the pop music of today and I don't think a great deal has changed on that score. I think nostalgia, and especially 1970s nostalgia is viewed through rose-tinted glasses - we only remember the really good stuff and the really bad stuff - it's the mediocre that describes an era and much of the 1970s was awfully, forgettably average.
I was there, it wasn't that great.
I was there too, I think there is some good music today, but I don't think I hear the kind of developed pop music today that you might have heard in the early to mid 70s. I'm thinking of artists like Simon & Garfunkel, Paul Simon, EW&F, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Dionne Warwick or Michael Jackson. I don't hear much pop music today that has that same kind of artistic sophistication.
I'll see your Paul Simon & Garfunkle Art, EN&T, Wonder, Gaye, Warwick and Jackson and raise you Christie, Tony Orlando and Dawn, New Seekers, Lieutenant Pigeon, Mungo Jerry, Paper Lace, Bay City Rollers, Arrows, The Tams, Middle Of The Road, Donny Osmond, Little Jimmy Ozymand(ias king of kings look upon my works ye Mighty and Despair), David Soul, David Cassidy, Peters & Lee, Rubettes, Brotherhood of Man, John Travolta & Olivia Neutron Bomb, Mouth & MacNeal, Hot Butter, First Choice, Carl Douglas, Shirley & Company, Lynsey DePaul, Ace, Pilot, Sailor, 5000 volts, 100 tons and a Feather, (and all the Jonathan King creations bar one), Rick Dee's and his cast of Idiots, Smokie, (Lord) David Dundas, Meri Wilson, The Floaters, Tuxedo Junction, Manhatten Transfer... (anyway, your list is all 60s artists )
Anyway, I get your point, but I think there is modern talent that is putting sophistication and cleverness into pop music but is being overshadowed by the dire regurgitated urban-pop and <<insert you country here>>'s got (no)talent outpourings (which are no different to what we had to endure in the 70s) and avoiding the dross that was around in the 70s (all the artists I listed had big hits - think of all the other's that didn't - for every one-hit-wonder there were hundreds of dire no-hit-blunders that fell by the wayside).
Mungo Jerry
There is a video from that time period where he is singing that awful song of his over and over (possibly about underage girls) with the instrumental section where he makes weird noises and the whole time he is glancing around like some scary pervert, yeah, they don't make them like Mungo Jerry anymore.
and the point is that even pop music at that period was far better than today`s. Abba and Bonny M are deserved to be listened (as i listen to them some times!) but LADY GAGA!!! NO WAY!!!i call 70`s the golden age. not just music but as i mentioned, also theater, cinema, philosophy and even sport was at its peak at that time (Look back at football world cup 1970, its unrepeatable) it`s about 2 years that i`m preparing the material for a book titled: Golden 70`s. hopefully will be finished at next summer...
I think you are wrong - the pop music of then was just as bad and just as good as the pop music of today and I don't think a great deal has changed on that score. I think nostalgia, and especially 1970s nostalgia is viewed through rose-tinted glasses - we only remember the really good stuff and the really bad stuff - it's the mediocre that describes an era and much of the 1970s was awfully, forgettably average.
I was there, it wasn't that great.
I was there too, I think there is some good music today, but I don't think I hear the kind of developed pop music today that you might have heard in the early to mid 70s. I'm thinking of artists like Simon & Garfunkel, Paul Simon, EW&F, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Dionne Warwick or Michael Jackson. I don't hear much pop music today that has that same kind of artistic sophistication.
I'll see your Paul Simon & Garfunkle Art, EN&T, Wonder, Gaye, Warwick and Jackson and raise you Christie, Tony Orlando and Dawn, New Seekers, Lieutenant Pigeon, Mungo Jerry, Paper Lace, Bay City Rollers, Arrows, The Tams, Middle Of The Road, Donny Osmond, Little Jimmy Ozymand(ias king of kings look upon my works ye Mighty and Despair), David Soul, David Cassidy, Peters & Lee, Rubettes, Brotherhood of Man, John Travolta & Olivia Neutron Bomb, Mouth & MacNeal, Hot Butter, First Choice, Carl Douglas, Shirley & Company, Lynsey DePaul, Ace, Pilot, Sailor, 5000 volts, 100 tons and a Feather, (and all the Jonathan King creations bar one), Rick Dee's and his cast of Idiots, Smokie, (Lord) David Dundas, Meri Wilson, The Floaters, Tuxedo Junction, Manhatten Transfer... (anyway, your list is all 60s artists )
Anyway, I get your point, but I think there is modern talent that is putting sophistication and cleverness into pop music but is being overshadowed by the dire regurgitated urban-pop and <<insert you country here>>'s got (no)talent outpourings (which are no different to what we had to endure in the 70s) and avoiding the dross that was around in the 70s (all the artists I listed had big hits - think of all the other's that didn't - for every one-hit-wonder there were hundreds of dire no-hit-blunders that fell by the wayside).
Mungo Jerry
There is a video from that time period where he is singing that awful song of his over and over (possibly about underage girls) with the instrumental section where he makes weird noises and the whole time he is glancing around like some scary pervert, yeah, they don't make them like Mungo Jerry anymore.
Mungo Jerry?! even his name seems weird to me! but i`ll check this 70`s guy. should be amazing...
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: October 13 2010 at 15:55
sohraab wrote:
40footwolf wrote:
sohraab wrote:
Dean wrote:
sohraab wrote:
and the point is that even pop music at that period was far better than today`s. Abba and Bonny M are deserved to be listened (as i listen to them some times!) but LADY GAGA!!! NO WAY!!! i call 70`s the golden age. not just music but as i mentioned, also theater, cinema, philosophy and even sport was at its peak at that time (Look back at football world cup 1970, its unrepeatable) it`s about 2 years that i`m preparing the material for a book titled: Golden 70`s. hopefully will be finished at next summer...
I think you are wrong - the pop music of then was just as bad and just as good as the pop music of today and I don't think a great deal has changed on that score. I think nostalgia, and especially 1970s nostalgia is viewed through rose-tinted glasses - we only remember the really good stuff and the really bad stuff - it's the mediocre that describes an era and much of the 1970s was awfully, forgettably average.
I was there, it wasn't that great.
i know that from ur point of view it was not that great since u are from 70`s! u r grown up with good rock music and so it`s pretty normal that u have not liked the pop music of that time... but what about our age? we miss many things in our life in this boring technological era... specially good music. what can we be proud of compared to PF, Eloy, JT and other giants of your age? DT, Por. Tree? opeth?! i love them all but to be honest they are nothing comparing to 70`s bands.
If you're talking about prog in general, then yeah, the quality has taken a big nosedive. But if you're saying there are no current bands at ALL that compete with '70s giants, let me point you towards...
Godspeed You! Black Emperor
Hella
The Flaming Lips
Battles
Modest Mouse
Spoon
Mastodon
Boris
Animal Collective
Bjork
Broken Social Scene
The Mars Volta
Cynic
Tool
The Knife
High on Fire
Koenjihyakkei
LCD Sound System
Lightning Bolt
Los Campesions!
M83
Massive Attack
The Mountain Goats
The National
Neutral Milk Hotel
Queens of the Stone Age
Radiohead
School of Seven Bells
Sigur Ros
The Sword
These New Puritans
Venetian Snares
White Rabbits
Wolf Parade
Young Knives
Zoe Keating
There is MORE than enough phenomenal music out there, you just have to know where to look.
i agree with u that there r some good stuff today. but compete with 70`s?! no way for me... and at this point, the list that u have provided here have some problems. first, it`s ur private taste but not a generally accepted good music. say, i really don`t find anything in radiohead. they r just a commercial band to me with a music below average standards... also with mastodon... second some of them are not prog at all and for me, just popy again radiohead... so i think it`s better to be careful when we use terms like PHENOMENAL. cuz such terms do not include solid concepts but relative ones. and after all, i love Bjork! but she is not progy at all!
Isn't everything we have all been saying relative to personal taste? Moreover isn't it all personal perceptions vs. personal recollections? Isn't the OP of this thread exactly that? "Camel: the most underrated prog band at in the 70's?" .. Well I think we've managed to prove convincingly that they were neither underrated nor were they themost underrated, so what we are left with is a discussion on relative perceptions of music now verse music then. Few of Mr Foot Wolf's list are prog bands - that's kind of the point - they are just good bands making good music - if you don't like it, that's fine - I'll wager there is a lot from the 70s that a) wasn't Prog and b) you won't like.
In the car this afternoon I was listing to this from 1976...
and the point is that even pop music at that period was far better than today`s. Abba and Bonny M are deserved to be listened (as i listen to them some times!) but LADY GAGA!!! NO WAY!!! i call 70`s the golden age. not just music but as i mentioned, also theater, cinema, philosophy and even sport was at its peak at that time (Look back at football world cup 1970, its unrepeatable) it`s about 2 years that i`m preparing the material for a book titled: Golden 70`s. hopefully will be finished at next summer...
I think you are wrong - the pop music of then was just as bad and just as good as the pop music of today and I don't think a great deal has changed on that score. I think nostalgia, and especially 1970s nostalgia is viewed through rose-tinted glasses - we only remember the really good stuff and the really bad stuff - it's the mediocre that describes an era and much of the 1970s was awfully, forgettably average.
I was there, it wasn't that great.
i know that from ur point of view it was not that great since u are from 70`s! u r grown up with good rock music and so it`s pretty normal that u have not liked the pop music of that time... but what about our age? we miss many things in our life in this boring technological era... specially good music. what can we be proud of compared to PF, Eloy, JT and other giants of your age? DT, Por. Tree? opeth?! i love them all but to be honest they are nothing comparing to 70`s bands.
If you're talking about prog in general, then yeah, the quality has taken a big nosedive. But if you're saying there are no current bands at ALL that compete with '70s giants, let me point you towards...
Godspeed You! Black Emperor
Hella
The Flaming Lips
Battles
Modest Mouse
Spoon
Mastodon
Boris
Animal Collective
Bjork
Broken Social Scene
The Mars Volta
Cynic
Tool
The Knife
High on Fire
Koenjihyakkei
LCD Sound System
Lightning Bolt
Los Campesions!
M83
Massive Attack
The Mountain Goats
The National
Neutral Milk Hotel
Queens of the Stone Age
Radiohead
School of Seven Bells
Sigur Ros
The Sword
These New Puritans
Venetian Snares
White Rabbits
Wolf Parade
Young Knives
Zoe Keating
There is MORE than enough phenomenal music out there, you just have to know where to look.
i agree with u that there r some good stuff today. but compete with 70`s?! no way for me... and at this point, the list that u have provided here have some problems. first, it`s ur private taste but not a generally accepted good music. say, i really don`t find anything in radiohead. they r just a commercial band to me with a music below average standards... also with mastodon... second some of them are not prog at all and for me, just popy again radiohead... so i think it`s better to be careful when we use terms like PHENOMENAL. cuz such terms do not include solid concepts but relative ones. and after all, i love Bjork! but she is not progy at all!
The POINT is that a lot of it isn't prog, since you said "'70s bands", not specifically "'70s prog bands". And as somebody else brought up, "phenomenal" is just as relative of a term as "underrated", and for a lot of these bands, their songwriting and musicianship chops are far above par. You can't just blankly say "no music today is as good as it was in the '70s", and then when examples of great bands are brought up turn around and say "That's a subjective opinion!" So is yours. You can't have it both ways.
Joined: July 21 2010
Location: Midlands
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Posted: October 18 2010 at 14:17
I have always considered Camel to be masters of a warm, lugubrious sort of prog that is strong on melody and not overly difficult on the ears.
Breathless and Mirage are probably my favourite albums but Nude is terrific and even the Single Factor has some lovely work on it.
I do believe the band to be underrated by the general music fan but not particularly by fans of prog. After an evening listening to VDGG or King Crimson then Moonmadness can act like a warm radox bath.
Joined: July 21 2010
Location: Midlands
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Posted: October 20 2010 at 08:01
Come on guys !! This is all just a matter of personal opinion.
Camel are one of the few bands where it can be said that they never released any truly POOR material, it's just that some of their albums are better than others.
I suppose most people will prefer the glory years of Moonmadness, Snowgoose etc. but if you look & listen there are gems to be found in ALL their albums.
Andy Latimers guitar work is as good as ever after all.
Joined: May 05 2010
Location: Somerset, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 15
Posted: October 20 2010 at 16:19
For Me Camel were at there best in the 70s, berfore Peter Bardens departure from the band and sad untimely demise I have lost count how many time I saw them live when I was a student from pubs in clubs, to the hammersmith Odeon and the Rainbow in London. They were a good solid band and I was there at Dingwells when Homage to the God of Light Revisited was recorderd, that was Bardens at his pure Jazz best, he could make that Hammond B3 sing. Listen to some of his solo work, especially 'Seen One Earth' Its worth a listen.
1. Rehearsal (bonus footage) 2. Soundcheck (bonus footage) 3. Opening Titles / Lunar Sea 4. Hymn To Her 5. Rhayader 6. Rhayader Goes To Town 7. Drafted 8. Docks 9. Beached 10. Spirit of the Water 11. Ice 12. Fan interviews (bonus footage) 13. Mother Road 14. Needles 15. Rose Of Sharon 16. Irish Air 17. Harbours of tears 18. Cobh 19. Send Home The Slates 20. Under The Moon 21. Watching The Bobbins 22. Eyes Of Ireland 23. Running From Paradise 24. End Of The Day 25. Coming Of Age 26. The Hour Candle 27. Closing Credits / Irish Air
You know that I adore Camel.I don't believe that are underrated very much.But I don't like when I hear"From the obscure british prog rock bands I like Camel".Silly!For me,they are important.I agree that people had to focus more on them.A good obscure british prog rock band that I like very much is Cressida.They're obscure.Not Camel!
Sonorous Meal show every Sunday at 20:00 (greek time) on http://www.justincaseradio.com
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: FRANCE
Status: Offline
Points: 2585
Posted: January 12 2011 at 18:23
In terms of music camel is a first division band,saw them several times on stage in france and have never been disapointed even ther's a few weaker albums and looking at my progy frinds they're still a very popular band
I just heard few of their tracks (Air Born, Never let go, Breathless).. would like to get into the band a bit more..
What is the best album to start with?
Thanks.
I know from my personal perspective, "Mirage", "The Snow Goose" and "Moonmadness" are excellent albums to start with. "The Snow Goose" is heralded as their best work and I would nearly agree, but "Moonmadness" takes the cake by a slight amount for me (personally, of course :) )
All in all, Camel is one of my favorite prog rock bands ever.
Joined: February 23 2008
Location: Lebanon
Status: Offline
Points: 934
Posted: January 13 2011 at 00:04
As far as i'm concerned , Camel was highly appreciated during the 70's & 80's , all there albums were great , and got the right recognition & rating . Nude & Rajaz were a little bit underrated , but one day we will find out that they will be highly rated . Latimer , with no doubt is among the best 5 songwriters/multi-instrumentalists . and from the way i see things , they've had more success outside UK & Ireland !
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Camel: the most underrated prog band at 70`s?
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Dean wrote:
)
