Spiritual but not religious?

^^ oh, I was completely sincere when I wrote the previous post.

Only kidding of course. But how many Christians are sincere when it comes to that part? How many Christians are not scared of dying?


Edited by Mr ProgFreak - June 08 2010 at 16:23

Epignosis wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: ^ The verse is based on the premise that Jesus was the son of God. Where's the proof for that? Don't get me wrong, of course I get the point about the verse and the emotions it can trigger. But if you look at it closely: Suppose Jesus was the son of God. He dies, returns from heaven, then dies again and returns to heaven. What's the deal? You are seeking proof.  I never offered you proof.  You asked for the foundation of Christianity, and I gave it. (As an aside, "Son of God" is a phrase loaded with modern Western thought too, as opposed to ancient near eastern thought.  I've debated and discussed with plenty of people- pastors, theologians, Bible students and professors- about what it means specifically, and we all have somewhat different ideas about it- for example, like Mr. Neal Morse, to whom I am listening right now, I am not a Trinitarian, which is a very orthodox belief to evangelical Christianity.  We agree that- and I think this is most important- Jesus Christ is the one for whom the world exists.  The universe is his inheritance, as it were.)

In a way that's all I'm saying - you don't have any proof for your position. You have faith.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: Epignosis wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: ^ So I can opt for Pascals Wager then? "I believe in Jesus" Alright, I'll get into heaven, just in case it exists. Now back to the sinful life. Genuine belief in Christ leads to repentance.  That's pretty clear (and please note that I said 98%, not 100%). So was he born of a virgin then? If not, that somehow negates the whole son of God thing. Downplay it all you want, but I'm fairly sure that it's an important aspect of Christianity that's not up for debate for most Christians.

Go ahead and tell me the "somehow."  I'd like to hear it. 

Mr ProgFreak wrote: In a way that's all I'm saying - you don't have any proof for your position. You have faith.

We don't have proof of most things.  We still believe in them and act accordingly on a daily basis.

Proletariat wrote: Epignosis wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: ^ So I can opt for Pascals Wager then? "I believe in Jesus" Alright, I'll get into heaven, just in case it exists. Now back to the sinful life. Genuine belief in Christ leads to repentance.  That's pretty clear (and please note that I said 98%, not 100%). good. then we agree that you will not die because your sincere and i will go to hell because of my lack of sincerity. it only follows that because i can not gain salvation I can sin as much as I want.

See my post above. 

^^^^ I'm simply not into believing things for no good reasons. Remember that definition of delusion. Now, there's no proof that there isn't a (Christian) god, so obviously that particular definition does not apply ... but it gets really close. Compare Christianity and Islam. They can't both be true. So you're down to a fifty/fifty chance of salvation - and there are many more religions that might or might not be correct. If you maintain the position that there *is* a God and if you don't call him by the right name or worship him the right way, you won't be saved ... your chances are slim at best. I know, you have your faith. But evidence - in this case statistical - is on my side of the argument.

Edited by Mr ProgFreak - June 08 2010 at 16:37

Edit. Eh, whatever.


Edited by Dalezilla - June 09 2010 at 03:28

So if Santa Claus does not exist because it's just something you tell the children when they're young... then why not the same with God?  Both are unbelievable beings.

We know Santa Claus is not real but we tell the children he is.  Then when they grow up they learn he is not real.  Much like the Tooth Fairy too.

Of course, we do not know God does not exist but for some reason we cannot just say "nope, sorry, God is false and we have been deluding you all these years".  Very few religious people would believe you.

I don't understand how a child can suddenly realise Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist when they reach adulthood but they can still believe in something just as silly as God.


Edited by James - June 08 2010 at 17:46

That's good that you do not then, in my opinion.  Many families do though.  The same with the Tooth Fairy.

It's an analogy I've used before actually.

I realise Santa Claus/Father Christmas/St. Nikolaus isn't the same as God but he's still very much a figure people believe in at a young age.  Yet I know nobody who says he's real or has ever been real.  Yet he rides a sleigh, is able to travel faster than speed of light (or so I always presumed) and has magical reindeer who can fly.

Mike said something like that earlier in reference to Zeus as well.  Yet how many people believe in the Roman, Greek and Norse pantheon of gods and goddesses?

This is why it has always been difficult to accept God can exist.  You get told of Santa Claus when you're young and then you suddenly realise you'd been fooled all these years.

Yes but why do you believe in Jesus and God?

That's my point.

There's no real basis to do so.  Jesus/God can be considered the same as Santa Claus if you're a child.  Why don't you grow out of it?