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Kashmir75
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 25 2009
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Points: 1029
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 05:28 |
I agree with 'Achilles Last Stand'. That is possibly Zep's most proggy song. Bonham's drums sound incredible on that, true. And there's a lot of complex multi-layered guitar work on that track, too.
And the Houses Of The Holy album may be the closest they've come to becoming a prog band. No Quarter, The Rain Song, The Song Remains The Same, all PROG.
Also, the track in my username is more than a little proggy, too...
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Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while...
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AtomicCrimsonRush
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Location: Australia
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Points: 14258
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 08:30 |
Black Dog has a proggy feel too
Immigrant Song is great
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EatThatPhonebook
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2009
Location: Norwich, VT
Status: Offline
Points: 788
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 09:02 |
How about Caroulesambra? Sounds pretty progish to me
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Cactus Choir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2008
Location: England
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Points: 1043
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 09:56 |
Being an ELP fan I do love Carouselambra which sounds like ELP plus guitars. Not sure whether Over the Hills and Far Away is prog but it's definitely one of their best. I love the structure with the acoustic opening which eventually leads into the funky electric guitar riff. Kashmir and No Quarter are prog classics for sure.
Edited by Cactus Choir - May 28 2010 at 09:56
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"And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!"
"He's up the pub"
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mr.cub
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 06 2009
Location: Lexington, VA
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Points: 971
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 12:33 |
Song Remains the Same, Rain Song, No Quarter. HOH was the nearest they came to prog
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Ronnie Pilgrim
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 09 2010
Location: The South of TX
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Points: 771
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 13:26 |
mr.cub wrote:
Song Remains the Same, Rain Song, No Quarter. HOH was the nearest they came to prog
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Agreed!
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Points: 17777
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 19:19 |
Hi,
There is enough from this band that fits the "prog" description far better than a lot of bands listed as prog, that are only using a sound effect.
First of all, the thing that made LZ so big and good, was that there indeed was a lot of care to detail and the work for each of them in the band came together because of it. It was a time where the ability and desire to define new feelings and musics were a lot more important than simple/boring pop music, or commercial sounding songs, which 90% of all music in the radio is ... and "progressive music" is NOT.
That said, there are a lot of songs that really get the blood boiling and that stand out not only because of its strength and design but also its total lack of care if someone called it rock'n'roll or not ... it was about the feeling they had and how they expressed it, and that is what "Whole Lotta Love" is all about, itself a massive progressive rocker, were it not that we ... specially when compared to a lot of things we call progressive that are mere copies of the original, and just a sound effect ... this was real music done right before your eyes and they could tear your heart out dancing in concert! Led Zeppelin bootlegs remain the testament to some of the best live concerts you will ever hear ... and the most special is the series around Bonzo's Birthday Party and Live on Blueberry Hill boots. The strength, the power, the connection and their ability to stay with each other, is by far one of the most powerful things anyone could ever see in music that is not appreciated a whole lot.
But it also showed the one side of things that many people don't like in music and specially progressive ... the improvisational side, which in this case, Jimmy states in "It's Gonna Get Loud" was really a result of the combination of really good folks and artists that worked together very well. And were not afraid to try different things.
I always thought that Physical Graffiti could have been one album only and it would have been even better, but it's still very good and shows an experimental side and Kashmir would be a progressive anthem if it were done by someone else instead of Led Zeppelin.
Presence, is a bit different for me. I liked Achiles' Last Stand at the time, when some folks thought that Jimmy was merely trying to keep up with Jeff Beck who had started doing some really far out things on his own solo albums and simply just exploding on the guitar. I disagreed ... I thought that this was actually a very good composition almost classical in every aspect, except the guitar was going to play the parts ... and it stands up! But rockers and fans that like Stairway to Heaven don't usually care for it ... what's it about? Like they knew what Stairway to Heaven was all about!
In many ways, things like this really helped progressive music get a better ear ... because it was different and special in its own way ... and that was one of the most glorious things in music in those days. There was a desire to do more with the music ... way more ... and way more adventurous and progressive than what is being done in New York or London today ... which is copycat music!
Edited by moshkito - May 28 2010 at 19:42
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 905
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 21:41 |
Presence while not as good as the first 6 albums is still pretty darn underrated.
PG is exellent and my fourth favorite after HOTH, II and III.
Custard Pie, Kashmir, In My Time Of Dying, Ten Years Gone, In the Light, Houses of the Holy, The Rover, Down by the Seaside and Trampled Under Foot are all great. I do think the 4th side is the weakest, like they crammed all the filler into that side of the album, these songs are listenable but uninspired, and they lack the punch of everything from the first 3 sides, so I like to pretend that Ten Years Gone is the real closer and everything after is just bonus material. Because the first 3 sides are perfect.
Edited by boo boo - May 28 2010 at 22:17
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Chris S
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Joined: June 09 2004
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 22:00 |
WatcherOfTheSkies88 wrote:
Led Zeppelin isn't really a progressive rock band... most of their songs aren't that complex or prog sounding, although they did have a fair share of 6+ minute long songs. However, IMO, they've made a few excellent progressive rock songs in their history. "Stairway to Heaven" is probably the most obvious example, since it is multi-part and is longer than 8 minutes. "Whole Lotta Love" is another one, with the long middle section with lots of weird noises. Other ones: No Quarter, Kashmir, Dazed and Confused, Battle of Evermore, How Many More Times, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You, In My Time of Dying, Caroselambra, When The Levee Breaks, In The Light and Friends. However, I think their prog masterpiece, and the best song they've ever done, is the 10 minute "Achilles Last Stand". It's probably the most complex song they've done, and it is just incredible. Page's guitar solo is one of the all time best. Anyway, what songs of Zeppelin do you consider progressive, and which is your favorite? |
I have to agree, Zeppelin's finest energized moment. Forget whether it is prog or not....who cares
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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valravennz
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 23:41 |
Achilles Last Stand Kashmir No Quarter The Rain Song Dazed and Confused
All the above have tons of prog elements and then some!!
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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javier0889
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Joined: March 21 2010
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 170
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Posted: May 28 2010 at 23:59 |
The Rain Song is my favorite prog song from Zep. Mostly because it showcases the criminally underrated talent of John Paul Jones. He was very prog if you think about it: just playing there, not as wild as Plant, Page or Bonzo. Also he provided keyboards and mellotron. JPJ could have been a great prog rock musician.... imagine him in 70's Crimson.
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AbrahamSapien
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 27 2009
Location: Slovenia
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Points: 181
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Posted: May 29 2010 at 00:47 |
What about Tea For one and in fact the whole Presence album?
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Caliban
Forum Newbie
Joined: May 25 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 17
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Posted: May 29 2010 at 14:12 |
Gernerally just the longer songs and those with multiple genres incorporated, which is many.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17777
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Posted: May 29 2010 at 14:28 |
valravennz wrote:
Achilles Last Stand
Kashmir
No Quarter
The Rain Song
Dazed and Confused
All the above have tons of prog elements and then some!! |
Too bad that your reflection is 35 years later, and the term was not even used until 20 years ago!
At the time music had a lot of experimental elements and Led Zeppelin were just as much at the forefront of it, specially in concert, as they were in their music.
Sadly no one gives Jimmy the credit he should deserve as being a master musician that was way up and ahead of others and he had a good knack for adjusting, adding and bringing things together in any jam and experiment, which is something that you can't teach and is the most important factor in the definition and birth of what we came to call "progressive".
It was a special time. And it we are not men enough to consider those progressive, then we need to come up with a new term and I, for one, will quit the "prog" scene ... and call it DIVINE.
It's just weird seeing terminology aplied to music that could have given a damn about what it was ... and most people are missing the point of the music and what it meant to those that were doing it ,.. it wasn't because it was "prog" ... it was because that's what you had inside your heart and the time and place helped you bring it out! ... this f**king prog illusion is so sick!
Edited by moshkito - May 29 2010 at 14:30
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Chris S
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Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
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Points: 7028
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Posted: May 29 2010 at 14:45 |
moshkito wrote:
valravennz wrote:
Achilles Last Stand
Kashmir
No Quarter
The Rain Song
Dazed and Confused
All the above have tons of prog elements and then some!! |
Too bad that your reflection is 35 years later, and the term was not even used until 20 years ago!
At the time music had a lot of experimental elements and Led Zeppelin were just as much at the forefront of it, specially in concert, as they were in their music.
Sadly no one gives Jimmy the credit he should deserve as being a master musician that was way up and ahead of others and he had a good knack for adjusting, adding and bringing things together in any jam and experiment, which is something that you can't teach and is the most important factor in the definition and birth of what we came to call "progressive".
It was a special time. And it we are not men enough to consider those progressive, then we need to come up with a new term and I, for one, will quit the "prog" scene ... and call it DIVINE.
It's just weird seeing terminology aplied to music that could have given a damn about what it was ... and most people are missing the point of the music and what it meant to those that were doing it ,.. it wasn't because it was "prog" ... it was because that's what you had inside your heart and the time and place helped you bring it out! ... this f**king prog illusion is so sick! |
Hey I wouldn't be so hard on the genre tagging side of things. A charcteristic of humans ( most) that we compartmentalize and PA's strength is that we do what is best to find the right fit for the artists..
I wholeheartedley agree however that Jimmy Page was well ahead of his time, does not get enough credit sometimes and LZ were experimental ( playing a guitar with a violin bow springs to mind) ( Sandy Denny singing on Battle of Evermore another)
They truly were the Rock masters. Untouchable IMO.
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Atavachron
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Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
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Points: 65305
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Posted: May 29 2010 at 17:14 |
moshkito wrote:
It's just weird seeing terminology aplied to music that could have given a damn about what it was ... and most people are missing the point of the music and what it meant to those that were doing it ,.. it wasn't because it was "prog" ... it was because that's what you had inside your heart and the time and place helped you bring it out! ... this f**king prog illusion is so sick! |
relax, it's called history and that's how it works-- Jazz wasn't 'Jazz' till it was "Jazz" ..what are we supposed to do, mumble like idiots about "that cool, flashy, long-winded stuff in the 70s, y'know like that there Jethro Tull guy with the flute."
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chopper
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Joined: July 13 2005
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Posted: May 29 2010 at 17:54 |
AbrahamSapien wrote:
What about Tea For one and in fact the whole Presence album?
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Tea For One is basically a slow blues.
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Malve87
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 19 2005
Location: Genova, Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 252
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Posted: May 30 2010 at 06:34 |
Kashmir, Carouselambra, No Quarter, The Rain Song...
hell...even "Stairway to Heaven" to me has a prog influence...the mood, the atmosphere, the visionary lyrics, the structure (a crescendo to the rockin' final)...
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valravennz
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: March 20 2005
Location: New Zealand
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Posted: May 30 2010 at 23:47 |
Chris S wrote:
moshkito wrote:
valravennz wrote:
Achilles Last Stand
Kashmir
No Quarter
The Rain Song
Dazed and Confused
All the above have tons of prog elements and then some!! |
Too bad that your reflection is 35 years later, and the term was not even used until 20 years ago!
At the time music had a lot of experimental elements and Led Zeppelin were just as much at the forefront of it, specially in concert, as they were in their music.
Sadly no one gives Jimmy the credit he should deserve as being a master musician that was way up and ahead of others and he had a good knack for adjusting, adding and bringing things together in any jam and experiment, which is something that you can't teach and is the most important factor in the definition and birth of what we came to call "progressive".
It was a special time. And it we are not men enough to consider those progressive, then we need to come up with a new term and I, for one, will quit the "prog" scene ... and call it DIVINE.
It's just weird seeing terminology aplied to music that could have given a damn about what it was ... and most people are missing the point of the music and what it meant to those that were doing it ,.. it wasn't because it was "prog" ... it was because that's what you had inside your heart and the time and place helped you bring it out! ... this f**king prog illusion is so sick! |
Hey I wouldn't be so hard on the genre tagging side of things. A charcteristic of humans ( most) that we compartmentalize and PA's strength is that we do what is best to find the right fit for the artists..
I wholeheartedley agree however that Jimmy Page was well ahead of his time, does not get enough credit sometimes and LZ were experimental ( playing a guitar with a violin bow springs to mind) ( Sandy Denny singing on Battle of Evermore another)
They truly were the Rock masters. Untouchable IMO. |
Thanks Chris for your comments. Moshkito: I am surprised that using the terminology highlighted in my quote could draw such criticism and pedantic analysis!! Yes - I agree Jimmy Page should be given more credit as a Master musician. But what has that got to do with the term "prog" - which is a commonly used shortened version of "progressive" and used by most PA'ers.??. In relation to my posting that is all that it implied and nothing else - but then why am I justifying my use of that terminology? It certainly was not a throw away remark. I think there are better things to focus on than a commonly used term, which I and most others use with affection!
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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp
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Wiktor Hatif
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Location: Poland
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Posted: May 31 2010 at 01:48 |
I always loved "Carouselambra" - maybe because of the "gizmo" that was used there (if you don't know, gizmo is an invention for guitar by Godley & Creme of 10cc)
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