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Topic ClosedMagma´s ideology controversy. Read this!
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d.o.k View Drop Down
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Points: 113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 14:11
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

@ Dok: On the contrary, in the last link they clearly say they belong to NO ideology and that all such accuses are not true.

which can also be considered as a very easy answer since it's answering about Magma the band but not Christian Vander himself. Still no denying.
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 14:18
^ I would assume that referring to Magma also includes Vander, it's logical.
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d.o.k View Drop Down
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Points: 113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 14:24
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

 
Some rumors aren't worth addressing. Of course, that only makes some people believe in them more (WHERE'S OBAMA'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!??), but responding to the rumor that you're a Nazi will only perpetuate the belief that you're a Nazi. And it won't convince the people who want to believe otherwise.

That is indeed a good point too.
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d.o.k View Drop Down
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Points: 113 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 14:41
Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

^ I would assume that referring to Magma also includes Vander, it's logical.

Yeah but I could be a pedophile+neo-nazi+murderer and absolutely not expressing it in my band's music, that is why I see a difference between the man and the musician, member of a band.
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 14:46
Originally posted by d.o.k d.o.k wrote:

Originally posted by harmonium.ro harmonium.ro wrote:

^ I would assume that referring to Magma also includes Vander, it's logical.

Yeah but I could be a pedophile+neo-nazi+murderer and absolutely not expressing it in my band's music, that is why I see a difference between the man and the musician, member of a band.


That's a good point, but on the other side, all the evidence provided were interpretations of his work and acts as a musician, not personal deeds.
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Points: 1009 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 15:09
"< ="utf-8">Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh = M.D.K. (the ultimate weapon) = Murder, Death, Kill.  Coincidence?  Perhaps but I don't think so."

I'm not sure if I now have more respect for Magma for being associated with bad Sylvester Stallone movies or less respect for the producers of Demolition Man for being "into" Magma at that level.  LOL  I find myself equally indifferent to both.
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 15:16
There was also a really bad computer game called M.D.K. LOL
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Points: 2459 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 15:21
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:


 
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

 

I've always wondered if the sleeve of Little Red Record wasn't meant as parody.

I doubt it.

Back in those days, laughter was banned as the subversive middle class thing it was. 




Er... How do you explain those matching moles on the cover of the band's FIRST album?

("Does anybody here remember LAUGHTER?" )
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Points: 4202 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 15:41
Originally posted by moebius moebius wrote:



I disagree. This fan is hurt  because Magma/Vander uses nazirelated quotes and images. Well, I assume  they do this to create their complex art concerning war, destruction, good, evil and so on.

He demands an apology because he's been exposed to an image of an Albert Speer building, and what might be an extract from a Goebbles speech! He doesn't seem to take into consideration about how or why its used, or that its presented within a context. This is nothing to come out and apologize for.


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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 15:50
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:


 
Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

 

I've always wondered if the sleeve of Little Red Record wasn't meant as parody.

I doubt it.

Back in those days, laughter was banned as the subversive middle class thing it was. 




Er... How do you explain those matching moles on the cover of the band's FIRST album?

("Does anybody here remember LAUGHTER?" )


And what about titles such as "Instant Kitten" and "Instant Pussy"?Wink
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 15:56
Originally posted by James James wrote:

There was also a really bad computer game called M.D.K. LOL
Hey! I would think you would be the last person to trash talk Bioware.
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Points: 3658 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 15:59
 
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

 

And what about titles such as "Instant Kitten" and "Instant Pussy"?Wink


Most mice regards cats as the ultimate terror = evil fascists = Nazist = Holocaust. 

Everything depends on how each and individual react when confronted with a sound/picture/smell.
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 16:01
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

 
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

 

And what about titles such as "Instant Kitten" and "Instant Pussy"?Wink


Most mice regards cats as the ultimate terror = evil fascists = Nazist = Holocaust. 

Everything depends on how each and individual react when confronted with a sound/picture/smell.




I have a magnet on my fridge that says, "People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life"Wink...
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 16:08
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by fuxi fuxi wrote:

Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

I'd like to bring up the case of one of my favourite writers - HP Lovecraft. He was openly racist (and a lot of his work, as well as his letters, support this fact), and for a time he was a keen admirer of Hitler. Knowing this, I still manage to enjoy reading Lovecraft's stories, though obviously the more racist passages make me cringe.


Or take Céline. In spite of his disgusting anti-semitism he wrote one of the greatest French novels of the twentieth century. Or Ezra Pound. His support for Italian Fascism was plain stupid - but he wrote a great deal of highly enjoyable poetry!

we should also keep in mind that history is always the history of the winners. which means they usually depict themselves as choirboys and the losers as black as they can. mark that I am not denying the Nazi crimes. but I am an historian and know too well that the hands of the winners are blood-stained as well

Killing Nazi's is a bloody business, but someone has to do it.
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Points: 3658 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 16:13

That is most definate a fridge magnet I endorse and will purchase.

Back to topic again: I can understand why Magma get fascist/nazi associations by some. Their music is a bit Horst Wessel at times, they have covers which may be associated with a totalitarian political belief. Their Kobaian language is a bit mystic and their society is almost like Free Masons.

Hence....... Magma = A  Nazi band. Logical !!

I remember this type of thinking, and I was very much guilty myself in this type of thinking, from the Black Metal scene in Norway. They too were called Nazi scum and got tonnes of bad press from this. And that was even before anyone in the Norwegian Black Metal scene even uttered a single word. The scene was branded as Nazis just because of the music, the clothes, the names and because they did not conform with a liberal humanistic ideology. Hence......... the Black Metal scene = Nazis. Logical !!

It is just what we have become. 

(Disclaimer: I do not accuse Magma or the Black Metal scene of being Nazi) 


 



Edited by toroddfuglesteg - January 18 2010 at 16:15
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 16:19
Originally posted by toroddfuglesteg toroddfuglesteg wrote:

That is most definate a fridge magnet I endorse and will purchase.

Back to topic again: I can understand why Magma get fascist/nazi associations by some. Their music is a bit Horst Wessel at times, they have covers which may be associated with a totalitarian political belief. Their Kobaian language is a bit mystic and their society is almost like Free Masons.

Hence....... Magma = A  Nazi band. Logical !!

I remember this type of thinking, and I was very much guilty myself in this type of thinking, from the Black Metal scene in Norway. They too were called Nazi scum and got tonnes of bad press from this. And that was even before anyone in the Norwegian Black Metal scene even uttered a single word. The scene was branded as Nazis just because of the music, the clothes, the names and because they did not conform with a liberal humanistic ideology. Hence......... Black Metal = Nazis. Logical !!

It is just what we have become. 


 



Having read interviews with some members of those Black Metal bands, I beg to differ. Their ideas, though not 'Nazi' in a strict sense, were definitely racist, xenophobic and rather violent overall. And then, what about the church burnings - some of which destroyed some valuable ancient buildings? Not the work of mild-mannered individuals, that's for sure.
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 16:22
Originally posted by Rocktopus Rocktopus wrote:

Originally posted by moebius moebius wrote:



I disagree. This fan is hurt  because Magma/Vander uses nazirelated quotes and images. Well, I assume  they do this to create their complex art concerning war, destruction, good, evil and so on.

He demands an apology because he's been exposed to an image of an Albert Speer building, and what might be an extract from a Goebbles speech! He doesn't seem to take into consideration about how or why its used, or that its presented within a context. This is nothing to come out and apologize for.




Ah but Albert Speer wasn't convicted of any war crimes whatsoever and died in the 1970s.

But anyhow... let's get back on topic. Big smile
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Points: 4202 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 16:47
Originally posted by James James wrote:

Originally posted by Rocktopus Rocktopus wrote:

Originally posted by moebius moebius wrote:



I disagree. This fan is hurt  because Magma/Vander uses nazirelated quotes and images. Well, I assume  they do this to create their complex art concerning war, destruction, good, evil and so on.

He demands an apology because he's been exposed to an image of an Albert Speer building, and what might be an extract from a Goebbles speech! He doesn't seem to take into consideration about how or why its used, or that its presented within a context. This is nothing to come out and apologize for.




Ah but Albert Speer wasn't convicted of any war crimes whatsoever and died in the 1970s.




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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 17:00
There wasn't a point, I was just saying.
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Points: 3577 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2010 at 17:22
Also for a footnote Albert Speer desings the world cup football Throphy




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