Porcupine Tree for Eclectic?

Porcupine Tree aren't just heavy prog; on the other hand they have more to do with other genres with that. They started out as a pure Psychedelic band, followed by their middle period (IE: Stupid Dream, Signify) which is more or less Crossover, followed by  their latest period which has alot to do with progressive metal and heavy prog.

Probably not.

By that logic, a whole host of bands belong in Eclectic simply because their sound changed or evolved over the course of their discography.  That's not really what we look at (though it can be a factor).

The Eclectic category hosts those bands that are clearly progressive and amalgamate many distinct styles in the course of one album (usually), such that the album would not neatly fit into one of the other categories.

In the Court of the Crimson King is a very good example.  Within the five tracks, there's jazz, hard rock, acoustic rock, avant-garde improvisation, symphonic prog, and a bunch of other ingredients.

Hope this helps. 

^^ (Rob) valid, but I think the phrase from the definition that's brought up is the recognizing of "bands that evolved markedly over their career (in a progressive, evolutionary way), or have a plural style without a clear referential core". To which things stand this way: PT does comply to the first part, with a more than clear evolution, while they do have a referential core after all (so not just switches, without settling somewhere), thus not fitting the second part.

Porcupine Tree was initially in psychedelic, given the early albums up to Signify (to which Voyage 34 and Metanoia can add confortably), but the move was decided once the mentioned new taste of metal and heavy prog was adopted, starting with In Absentia. The Crossover phase was left in a minor tier. Of course, the heavy prog categorisation is not meant to be a pure and restraint one, but it was seen this way by adding the psych with the heavy and the metal (concepts of dark, hollow, riffing music also added to the table). To which the one big "spirit" flowing through the vein of most PT albums is perhaps significant as well.

But PT are indeed larger than a tag and a genre, so if the consensus is to add 90s + late 90s + 2004-present = Eclectic, then I'm personally fine with it. It's a more simple vision for everybody. But not many of their albums are eclectic inward.


Edited by Ricochet - September 22 2009 at 13:55

If anything, I would lean towards moving them to eclectic. I'm no eclectic expert, but I just feel that HP doesn't suit their style... but hey, it's up to the collabs.

I'm not sure if they should be moved, but I wouldn't say they belong in HP... I'd only really say their four latest are heavy prog, and the other 6 aren't really suitable for one genre either.

Petrovsk Mizinski wrote: Predicting this thread: 1.Will end up in 5+ pages of arguing about this 2. Somehow PT fanboyism will come into it. 3. People will cite more examples of other artists and their albums in the fight for For and Against and it will possibly end up going totally off topic. 4. Someone will get offended, most likely a fanboy or an anti fanboy Absolutely concrete facts: 1. Nothing will change as a result of this thread, the band will stay in Heavy Prog. (2. Fortunately this hasn't made to the second page yet at the time of writing)

Yeah, so far so good, but it will likely happen the way you said it.

Do you have an opinion on this, btw?

Mr ProgFreak wrote: Ricochet wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: ^ so eclectic is more a mood than a style thing? I don't understand the question. The way I understood your post is that PT aren't eclectic to you because darkness and - on the later albums - heaviness are present on most of the albums. I would agree to that these elements are recurring, but still most of their albums contain a broad range of styles. To me, stylistically, they are clearly an eclectic band.

I think I agreed that, as a band, PT's evolution during the career is the greatest lobby for it to be relocated in Eclectic. As far as the albums go, the same level of eclecticness and switchovers can't be found. I fairly anticipate this could be denied by going into details and nuances (you yourself find the opposite, saying make use of a "broad range of styles"), but to me most PT albums can really be labeled in a straight way stylistically, while clearly having a very powerful referential core.

I didn't relate to the dark flavours their music sometimes embrace to dismiss the eclecticness, I argued that those flavours were fully taken in account, when summing up the parts that were found fit for Heavy, and leaving the Crossover/Alternative in second tier. Even with the 90s psych/space and the post-'04 metal and heavy having distinct traits, the two, I repeat, were considered adequate in the same way for Heavy Prog.

Summing up styles without finding a (significant) common denominator leads to Eclectic Prog. For PT as a band, that's fine and makes broad sense. For PT's albums, that's less convincing.

I didn't know I needed an opinions on this:P
But yeah I honestly couldn't care that much either way if they got moved or not, but I know it wont happen anyway.
They got some heavy stuff, leave 'em in heavy prog lol.

They've already been moved once, from Space/Psych to HP. I don't see how anyone would really benefit from this game of ping-pong. This obsession with the 'perfect fit' is what is keeping dozens of up-and-coming prog bands out of the site, as well as having PA ridiculed around the internet. As a long-time member of this site, I don't like to see comments such as the ones I saw in a thread at Progressive Ears - unfortunately, they were quite true for the most part.

Anyway, while I agree that some form of categorization is useful (libraries would be impossible to use without categories), I can't help feeling that for some members it has become more important than the music itself.

Good to see we agree on something, Harry!