Porcupine Tree for Eclectic? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down

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Posted: September 23 2009 at 03:17

^ so eclectic is more a mood than a style thing?

Ricochet

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Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:54

^^ (Rob) valid, but I think the phrase from the definition that's brought up is the recognizing of "bands that evolved markedly over their career (in a progressive, evolutionary way), or have a plural style without a clear referential core". To which things stand this way: PT does comply to the first part, with a more than clear evolution, while they do have a referential core after all (so not just switches, without settling somewhere), thus not fitting the second part.

Porcupine Tree was initially in psychedelic, given the early albums up to Signify (to which Voyage 34 and Metanoia can add confortably), but the move was decided once the mentioned new taste of metal and heavy prog was adopted, starting with In Absentia. The Crossover phase was left in a minor tier. Of course, the heavy prog categorisation is not meant to be a pure and restraint one, but it was seen this way by adding the psych with the heavy and the metal (concepts of dark, hollow, riffing music also added to the table). To which the one big "spirit" flowing through the vein of most PT albums is perhaps significant as well.

But PT are indeed larger than a tag and a genre, so if the consensus is to add 90s + late 90s + 2004-present = Eclectic, then I'm personally fine with it. It's a more simple vision for everybody. But not many of their albums are eclectic inward.

Edited by Ricochet - September 22 2009 at 13:55

Mr ProgFreak View Drop Down

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Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:49

^ your description also fits most PT albums. Of all their studio albums only Voyage 34 and Sky Moves Sideways are relatively homogenous (Space Rock), the others are inherently eclectic.

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Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:39

Probably not.

By that logic, a whole host of bands belong in Eclectic simply because their sound changed or evolved over the course of their discography. That's not really what we look at (though it can be a factor).

The Eclectic category hosts those bands that are clearly progressive and amalgamate many distinct styles in the course of one album (usually), such that the album would not neatly fit into one of the other categories.

In the Court of the Crimson King is a very good example. Within the five tracks, there's jazz, hard rock, acoustic rock, avant-garde improvisation, symphonic prog, and a bunch of other ingredients.

Hope this helps. Smile

https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

Marty McFly View Drop Down

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Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:39

Yep, I basically agree. I'm little bit ashamed, that I didn't realize that earlier, but now, when you said it, it's more obvious.

I still remember song "Jupiter Island", which haunts me in sleepless nights and perfect (and not heavy at all) Lightbulb Sun album. Yes, bands often changes style during start and end of their career, but they're really eclectic.

If you mean same thing as me. They're eclectic, as they have many styles in their music, but most of them (all of them?) are prog. I though that use "Eclectic prog" is reserved for those, who are prog to some extent, but are also other styles, not connected to prog.

There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

-Andyman1125 on Lulu

Even my

Conor Fynes View Drop Down

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Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:25

Porcupine Tree aren't just heavy prog; on the other hand they have more to do with other genres with that. They started out as a pure Psychedelic band, followed by their middle period (IE: Stupid Dream, Signify) which is more or less Crossover, followed by their latest period which has alot to do with progressive metal and heavy prog.

Wouldn't that constitute them being in eclectic prog over simply heavy prog???

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Mr ProgFreak Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195	Posted: September 23 2009 at 03:17
	^ so eclectic is more a mood than a style thing?

Ricochet Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 27 2005 Location: Nauru Status: Offline Points: 46301	Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:54
	^^ (Rob) valid, but I think the phrase from the definition that's brought up is the recognizing of "bands that evolved markedly over their career (in a progressive, evolutionary way), or have a plural style without a clear referential core". To which things stand this way: PT does comply to the first part, with a more than clear evolution, while they do have a referential core after all (so not just switches, without settling somewhere), thus not fitting the second part. Porcupine Tree was initially in psychedelic, given the early albums up to Signify (to which Voyage 34 and Metanoia can add confortably), but the move was decided once the mentioned new taste of metal and heavy prog was adopted, starting with In Absentia. The Crossover phase was left in a minor tier. Of course, the heavy prog categorisation is not meant to be a pure and restraint one, but it was seen this way by adding the psych with the heavy and the metal (concepts of dark, hollow, riffing music also added to the table). To which the one big "spirit" flowing through the vein of most PT albums is perhaps significant as well. But PT are indeed larger than a tag and a genre, so if the consensus is to add 90s + late 90s + 2004-present = Eclectic, then I'm personally fine with it. It's a more simple vision for everybody. But not many of their albums are eclectic inward. Edited by Ricochet - September 22 2009 at 13:55


Mr ProgFreak Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: November 08 2008 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 5195	Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:49
	^ your description also fits most PT albums. Of all their studio albums only Voyage 34 and Sky Moves Sideways are relatively homogenous (Space Rock), the others are inherently eclectic.

Epignosis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32553	Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:39
	Probably not. By that logic, a whole host of bands belong in Eclectic simply because their sound changed or evolved over the course of their discography. That's not really what we look at (though it can be a factor). The Eclectic category hosts those bands that are clearly progressive and amalgamate many distinct styles in the course of one album (usually), such that the album would not neatly fit into one of the other categories. In the Court of the Crimson King is a very good example. Within the five tracks, there's jazz, hard rock, acoustic rock, avant-garde improvisation, symphonic prog, and a bunch of other ingredients. Hope this helps.
	https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

Marty McFly Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2009 Location: Czech Republic Status: Offline Points: 3968	Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:39
	Yep, I basically agree. I'm little bit ashamed, that I didn't realize that earlier, but now, when you said it, it's more obvious. I still remember song "Jupiter Island", which haunts me in sleepless nights and perfect (and not heavy at all) Lightbulb Sun album. Yes, bands often changes style during start and end of their career, but they're really eclectic. If you mean same thing as me. They're eclectic, as they have many styles in their music, but most of them (all of them?) are prog. I though that use "Eclectic prog" is reserved for those, who are prog to some extent, but are also other styles, not connected to prog.
	There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu Even my

Conor Fynes Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: February 11 2009 Location: Vancouver, CA Status: Offline Points: 3196	Posted: September 22 2009 at 13:25
	Porcupine Tree aren't just heavy prog; on the other hand they have more to do with other genres with that. They started out as a pure Psychedelic band, followed by their middle period (IE: Stupid Dream, Signify) which is more or less Crossover, followed by their latest period which has alot to do with progressive metal and heavy prog. Wouldn't that constitute them being in eclectic prog over simply heavy prog???