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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 15:54
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

LOL

Sadly enough our tomatoes aren't producing very well this year.  I could spare some cayenne peppers to throw at you though.  The cayenne plant is being very fruitful.


I like peppers. Smile

Organic peppers would be like sh*tting molten lava!


Edited by Epignosis - July 15 2009 at 15:54
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 15:58
Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Flat tax...same rate for all, no tax exceptions for anyone, especially the wealthy who know the loopholes and how to end up paying LESS tax than the middle class.


A flat tax would be better than and less problematic than a consumption tax....but still wrong.

Again, it is regressive by nature.
It impacts lower earners hardest, the middle class would pay the bulk of taxes, and the wealthy would, in effect, be getting HUGE breaks.

What would the flat tax be? 15%
If that was the case, let's say you make $375,000 right now. Under that flat tax, that'd be a 20% cut.
Let's say the flat tax was 25%, then that would REALLY kill lower earners, especially if there are NO exceptions, (which there could not be because as you said people would loophole out of it)
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Slartibartfast View Drop Down
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 15:58
We can make a fierce salsa.  Being organic gardener though you'd be in for a whole world of hurt. LOL

By the way, if you can hold out until later in the season, we can probably throw some  habaneros at you. Tongue


Edited by Slartibartfast - July 15 2009 at 16:23
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 15:59
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:


And as I said, the wealthy can afford to be frugal and in this case they would be more frugal.

I guess I would not be opposed to a consumption tax as long as it's fair.
Lower earners should be exempt from certain purchases.
The actual sales tax should be progressive on the item being bought. Estate and luxury tax remains.
And corporations should still have to pay taxes.
Also, there would be NO Social Security or welfare under this plan. There'd be no money for it, unless you put payroll taxes back. And all this would defeat the idea



But the wealthy aren't frugal.  They spend a crap load.  Who cares if they save half their income if they spend millions each year on lolcat posters?

I'm opposed to Social security anyway- I say phase that sh*t out over a period of decades. Let people save for themselves.

Here's a better idea: Let Ramen noodles and Spam be exempt.  Then if you're flat broke, you can still eat without paying taxes.  Smile
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 16:18
I don't know.
The consumption tax thing SOUNDS good but it seems too simple.
I bet once we started going into details things would get messy.
Although, I guess one way to help a flat/consumption tax would be reforming the AMT. The AMT was designed to target high income earners that looped their way out of paying taxes. It has gotten out of control as of late, but if we put it back to it's original form...


I guess it doesn't matter anyway. Obama has said no the idea and even with some moderate Democrats I do not see a chance at a flat/consumption tax soon.

Now back to legalizing weed....LOL


Edited by JJLehto - July 15 2009 at 16:21
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 16:22
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:


Now back to legalizing weed....LOL

It will take a joint effort... Tongue
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 16:26
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:


Now back to legalizing weed....LOL

It will take a joint effort... Tongue


Ermm......LOL
Ah I couldn't help it
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 16:26
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:


Now back to legalizing weed....LOL

It will take a joint effort... Tongue


I'll be the token conservative. Smile
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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mr.cub View Drop Down
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Points: 971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 16:27
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


Here's a better idea: Let Ramen noodles and Spam be exempt.  Then if you're flat broke, you can still eat without paying taxes.  Smile


 
Best idea I have heard in years. Of course you will need a microwave for the noodles

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StyLaZyn View Drop Down
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Points: 4079 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 16:30
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Flat tax...same rate for all, no tax exceptions for anyone, especially the wealthy who know the loopholes and how to end up paying LESS tax than the middle class.


A flat tax would be better than and less problematic than a consumption tax....but still wrong.

Again, it is regressive by nature.
It impacts lower earners hardest, the middle class would pay the bulk of taxes, and the wealthy would, in effect, be getting HUGE breaks.

What would the flat tax be? 15%
If that was the case, let's say you make $375,000 right now. Under that flat tax, that'd be a 20% cut.
Let's say the flat tax was 25%, then that would REALLY kill lower earners, especially if there are NO exceptions, (which there could not be because as you said people would loophole out of it)


Do you really think the wealthy are paying all those high taxes? Guess again. They got wealthy or remain wealthy because of tax breaks in the guise of tax exceptions. They make their money work for them by doing something the poor and middle class can't afford to do...invest wisely. It's not like they are sitting on piles of money. They are sitting on piles of assets. They turn what they earn.

edit: Oh yeah...everything is also a write off. That nice Mercedes? They need it for business. Write it off. The new addition on their house holds an office for their business. Another write off. You get the picture.



Edited by StyLaZyn - July 15 2009 at 16:32
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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 16:30
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:


Now back to legalizing weed....LOL

It will take a joint effort... Tongue


I'll be the token conservative. Smile


So, despite our positions from all over the spectrum, and disagreement on everything we have "legalizing weed" down. TongueSmile
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Epignosis View Drop Down
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Points: 32524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 16:36
Originally posted by mr.cub mr.cub wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:


Here's a better idea: Let Ramen noodles and Spam be exempt.  Then if you're flat broke, you can still eat without paying taxes.  Smile


 
Best idea I have heard in years. Of course you will need a microwave for the noodles


Um...no you don't.  I've eaten them sh*ts raw plenty of times.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 16:39
Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Originally posted by StyLaZyn StyLaZyn wrote:

Flat tax...same rate for all, no tax exceptions for anyone, especially the wealthy who know the loopholes and how to end up paying LESS tax than the middle class.


A flat tax would be better than and less problematic than a consumption tax....but still wrong.

Again, it is regressive by nature.
It impacts lower earners hardest, the middle class would pay the bulk of taxes, and the wealthy would, in effect, be getting HUGE breaks.

What would the flat tax be? 15%
If that was the case, let's say you make $375,000 right now. Under that flat tax, that'd be a 20% cut.
Let's say the flat tax was 25%, then that would REALLY kill lower earners, especially if there are NO exceptions, (which there could not be because as you said people would loophole out of it)


Do you really think the wealthy are paying all those high taxes? Guess again. They got wealthy or remain wealthy because of tax breaks in the guise of tax exceptions. They make their money work for them by doing something the poor and middle class can't afford to do...invest wisely. It's not like they are sitting on piles of money. They are sitting on piles of assets. They turn what they earn.



Well then....what's the point!? LOL Even a flat tax, with no exceptions, would not work. They would find some way out....probably through off shore accounts.

OK!  how about this. Instead of income tax, and instead of consumption tax what if the whole thing was replaced with payroll tax.

Every person, (depending on income of course) will have so much taken out.
Also, businesses, (again depending on size) will so much taken out.
That way there is NO way out. And since it'd be direct NO need for any welfare or money back so no way to slither out.
We would also notice a business, especially a large one, NOT giving the money.

OK, I am now running for Congress. Prepare to see me in 2014!


Edited by JJLehto - July 15 2009 at 16:42
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 65248 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 17:51
weed
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JJLehto View Drop Down
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 18:43
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

weed




Indeed.
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 19:43
Originally posted by manofmystery manofmystery wrote:

A thread for Libertarians you say!
Maybe we can get Pen Jillette to join Progarchives now


Mmmm The Residents. Big smile

You know, he was kind of once in a band with Fred Frith?

True. Wink


147 - NEVER MIND THE SEX PISTOLS HERE'S BONGOS, BASS, AND BOB! (WHAT ON EARTH 
  WERE THEY THINKING?): Bongos, Bass, And Bob

    1/ Oral Hygiene                                                      2:34
    2/ Clothes Of The Dead                                               3:29
    3/ Walkin' In The Park                                               1:46
    4/ Temporarily Like Bob Dylan                                        5:00
    5/ Li'l Bluebird                                                     1:58
    6/ Mr. Lemke                                                         3:51
    7/ Hey Shirley                                                       2:34
    8/ What's Your Name Babe?                                            2:26
    9/ Rent Control (Our Life Together)                                  3:02
    10/ Jackson                                 (Rodgers, Wheeler)       3:00
    11/ Clearly Unhealthy                                                4:06
    12/ Cain't Grow A Beard                                              3:53
    13/ Payday                                                           2:32
    14/ Thorazine Shuffle                                                5:07
    15/ Die Tryin' To Escape                                             2:01
    16/ Girls With Guns                                                  3:07
    17/ Gun In My Hand (And I'm Waitin' On My Woman)                     6:13

    Recorded at Noise New York
    Produced by Kramer

  Rob "Running" Elk: guitar, rhythm guitar, vocals, little boy noises; Dean
  J. Seal: bongos, vocals, whistling, little boy noises; Penn Jillette: bass,
  mouth organ, vocals, phony tom tom, high hat, mouth noises; Kramer (2,3,5,6,
  9,11,15): siren whistle, phoney strings, fake accordion, whistle, backing
  vocals, fake B3, noise, slide guitar, phony horns; Fred Frith (5,8,10): vio-
  lin; Ann Magnuson (5,10?): backing vocals; Rudy Teller (11,16,17): phoney B3
  organ, vocals, fake sitar and tabla; Sweetie Pie (15): backing vocals; Marc
  Garland (15,16): backing vocals.
Wink
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Henry Plainview View Drop Down
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 21:13
Fascinating, I wouldn't have thought we'd all be in agreement that Ayn Rand was a terrible person. Also, Libertarian Reluctantly Calls Fire Department.
 
What a coincidence, five Ayn Rand fans on the same train! They must be going to the same convention.


Edited by Henry Plainview - July 15 2009 at 21:15
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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VanderGraafKommandöh View Drop Down
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Points: 89372 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 21:14
Alex isn't here... he loves Ayn Rand. Wink
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Henry Plainview View Drop Down
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 21:16
Originally posted by James James wrote:

Alex isn't here... he loves Ayn Rand. Wink
Well, besides Alex. But he doesn't count, for reasons we have all agreed upon behind his back. ;-)
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 65248 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2009 at 21:17
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

 



good stuff
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