Political discussion thread

Finnforest wrote: Fair enough, but the expenditures are supposed to be temporary and were started by Bush (bailouts).  They are unsustainable and will be dialed back when the economy recovers.  If not, he'll fail and be trounced at the polls in 4 years.

Look, under the current circumstances I am WITH Keynes - we have to spend our way out of this recession. But you cannot simply print money and distrubute it to all who wants it. If you create new unsupported  money, at the very least you must spend it on creating something tangible, such as roads and bridges. If you give every citizen a million bucks, sure, you will move goods from the shelves, people will start buying, but it will be a very short-lived recovery. If you don't create new wealth with new money, you create inflation and just another bubble. You cant allocate only 20% of the $800B to public works and tell me with an honest face that your stimulus package will pull us out of this sh*t. Rather such waste would require a stimulus package every 6 months or so.

IVNORD wrote: The T wrote: IVNORD wrote: JJLehto wrote: See that's the thing. I agree, and I wish it was that way. But you know full well that the American voter base is VERY concerned with looks, appearance, just how the candidate comes across. And competence and wisdom has not been proven a necessity. Like I said I wish candidates were based on merit, but we know thats hardly the case. Does it apply to Obama too?    The thing with Obama is that he has looks while Republicans look defeated, he has the appearance while Republicans look grumpy, Obama comes across as a bringer of hope instead of a bringer of doom like Republicans; Competence and wisdom are earned with time, but he looks and talks like he actually one day be wise, So as long as Obama comes across as a bringer of hope  and he looks and talks like he actually one day be wise, it doesn't matter what he does? That speaks volumes. Oh yes... In the end the American voter, we all agree, is kind of dumb. 8 years ago they chose the guy they would more likely want to have a beer with, now they preferred someone who looks and talks smart.... And looks like is the right person for the job... But we can't know for sure until after he's given the chance... which takes MORE THAN 3 MONTHS. The T wrote:  He's a black person Why are you saying this? If you quoted the whole thing, it would make much more sense, but following the Sean hannitty school of (mis)quoting, you didn't. I said:   "He's a black person raised without father who always has been first in anything he's ever done, so he has some merit, unlike the spoiled drunk brat we just had... memb er of the Republican party.. "   Being black, in this country of yours, and being first in everything he has done, plus being raised with no father, shows some extra merit.... That's what my post intended to mean. But this Fox News-style of quoting obviously affects my original idea...     The T wrote: IVNord wrote: JJLehto wrote: Though I must agree I do ACTUALLY think Obama is an intelligent man, I'm glad to see an intellectual return to the Dems. I thought they were supposed to be the intellectual party... So is the $2 Trillion deficit an act of intelligence, or confidence, or wisdom? Or all of the above? As I recall Bush was branded an a****le for running a $500 billion deficit.   No... Bush was called an a****le because he couldn't talk in complete sentences and because constantly he appeared like a fool... the deficit was not the reason for the name calling... Which brings us to square one - the American voter base is VERY concerned with looks, appearance, just how the candidate comes across. The American voter that your system has breed... the system where people are told money is everything and education is worthless The deficit does not matter. His speach impairment - that's what's importatnt.   By the way, you ignored my question. Bush is no more. Bush is history. Forget Bush. You are facing a calamity being brought upon you by YOUR president. Hope you realize that. I wonder who you will be blaiming in 4 years. I will be blaming Obama if in 4 YEARS the country's is worse than it is right now.... but I'll wait at least 4 YEARS... or maybe 2... not THREE MONTHS....   Obviously, Obama doesn't represent you, as you say "YOUR president"... So who's your president?   The T wrote: Even dumber is to judge a president on three months in office.... Really? Is it that dumb? Don't give me this bullsh*t please. With all the crap he managed to do in his three months in office, Obama is firmly on track to become a bigger a****le than Bush and Clinton combined.

Yes, it IS DUMB. It's more than that, but I won't say it. I'm sorry he's trying to turn your country into something else man... Let's wait a while....

I don't really see how a piece of sh*t pork legislation like the now trillion dollar + bailout package is avoidable. Senators and representatives have the power to serve themselves and will do so or they'll be left behind. And trying to elect new people just doesn't seem to work. They all promise change and go on doing the same things or worse. I can only imagine that change will come only when the US is a godforsaken awful place, truly third world status. and even then, It's only a matter of time before things revert to their old ways. Justice and accountability are impossible in a country this size.

tszirmay wrote: stonebeard wrote: I don't really see how a piece of sh*t pork legislation like the now trillion dollar + bailout package is avoidable. Senators and representatives have the power to serve themselves and will do so or they'll be left behind. And trying to elect new people just doesn't seem to work. They all promise change and go on doing the same things or worse. I can only imagine that change will come only when the US is a godforsaken awful place, truly third world status. and even then, It's only a matter of time before things revert to their old ways. Justice and accountability are impossible in a country this size.   Sad, as Justice and accountabilty are the two cornerstones of America! As far as size is concerned, it's how you use it  allegedly .

In a country this size and with this many people, politicians think they can get away with everything. Largely, they're right. The American people don't really have the power to change things drastically. They can petition their reps to take action but if it's risky, bet you're ass they won't.

Well IVNORD, I had a feeling you were going to do all that.
It really comes down to your personal feelings, obviously you're opposed to Obama's economics, I am not, that simple. Though I must say you really are giving Obama no chance. You're not the only one...but cmon of he's a failure in your eyes and there hasn't even been time for anything to happen.

So yea, policies are policies, but one thing I will explain myself on:

You're so sweet. Do you like every president? No matter if he conducts a war with arrogant ignorance, runs huge deficits, imposes his own policies with blatant disregard for the constitution? A nice guy indeed.

Jesus, THAT wasn't an a****le statement at all
OK, I DO think Bush was a good guy, and so did a lot of people. Isn't that why he really won in 04? Kerry was a TOOL! But Bush...now THATS I guy I could sit down and have a beer with.
Now, thats not exactly Presidential material..a good 'ol buddy.

But like I said, Bush was sheltered. Why he was always so out of the loop it seemed? He was sorrounded by intelligent people, and he DID once admit he dosn't really read much...then it struck me. Bush was just there to look pretty and sign the things, his administration around did everything for him. In his mind Iraq DID have WMD's and the War on Terror IS all abotu getting terrorists soley  etc etc etc. Because thats
what he was fed.

Bush is a New England (yea) elitist who was born with the silver spoon in his mouth, and was fed with it all his life. Even during his Presidency.
Oh, and no I dont like every President. In fact Captain America Ronald Reagan, I despise with a passion and love telling it to people to see there shocked expressions.
OK, I'm peacing...I've had more than enough of this thread.





Edited by JJLehto - June 12 2009 at 13:43

JJLehto wrote: Well IVNORD, I had a feeling you were going to do all that. It really comes down to your personal feelings, obviously you're opposed to Obama's economics, I am not, that simple.

IVNORD wrote: JJLehto wrote: Well IVNORD, I had a feeling you were going to do all that. It really comes down to your personal feelings, obviously you're opposed to Obama's economics, I am not, that simple. With his economics you and I will end up in the poor house together, believe me. Obama is destroying the middle class. JJLehto wrote: So yea, policies are policies, but one thing I will explain myself on: You're so sweet. Do you like every president? No matter if he conducts a war with arrogant ignorance, runs huge deficits, imposes his own policies with blatant disregard for the constitution? A nice guy indeed. Jesus, THAT wasn't an a****le statement at all OK, I DO think Bush was a good guy, and so did a lot of people. Isn't that why he really won in 04? Kerry was a TOOL! But Bush...now THATS I guy I could sit down and have a beer with. Now, thats not exactly Presidential material..a good 'ol buddy. But like I said, Bush was sheltered. Why he was always so out of the loop it seemed? He was sorrounded by intelligent people, and he DID once admit he dosn't really read much...then it struck me. Bush was just there to look pretty and sign the things, his administration around did everything for him. In his mind Iraq DID have WMD's and the War on Terror IS all abotu getting terrorists soley  etc etc etc. Because thats what he was fed. Bush is a New England (yea) elitist who was born with the silver spoon in his mouth, and was fed with it all his life. Even during his Presidency. Oh, and no I dont like every President. In fact Captain America Ronald Reagan, I despise with a passion and love telling it to people to see there shocked expressions. OK, I'm peacing...I've had more than enough of this thread. "Nice guy to have a beer with" and  "a New England (yea) elitist" is really a contradiction of terms. Think of it

OK took a breather, Im good now.

Its TOTALLY contradictory. That's why I laugh at the idea of Bush being "The Cowboy" the Good ol Boy from Texas, the guy you could sit down with and have a beer. Because that's not what he is at all.
Another thing I like shocking people with was that Bush was born in Connecticut. Some reactions were priceless

stonebeard wrote: IVNORD wrote: JJLehto wrote: Well IVNORD, I had a feeling you were going to do all that. It really comes down to your personal feelings, obviously you're opposed to Obama's economics, I am not, that simple. With his economics you and I will end up in the poor house together, believe me. Obama is destroying the middle class. JJLehto wrote: So yea, policies are policies, but one thing I will explain myself on: You're so sweet. Do you like every president? No matter if he conducts a war with arrogant ignorance, runs huge deficits, imposes his own policies with blatant disregard for the constitution? A nice guy indeed. Jesus, THAT wasn't an a****le statement at all OK, I DO think Bush was a good guy, and so did a lot of people. Isn't that why he really won in 04? Kerry was a TOOL! But Bush...now THATS I guy I could sit down and have a beer with. Now, thats not exactly Presidential material..a good 'ol buddy. But like I said, Bush was sheltered. Why he was always so out of the loop it seemed? He was sorrounded by intelligent people, and he DID once admit he dosn't really read much...then it struck me. Bush was just there to look pretty and sign the things, his administration around did everything for him. In his mind Iraq DID have WMD's and the War on Terror IS all abotu getting terrorists soley  etc etc etc. Because thats what he was fed. Bush is a New England (yea) elitist who was born with the silver spoon in his mouth, and was fed with it all his life. Even during his Presidency. Oh, and no I dont like every President. In fact Captain America Ronald Reagan, I despise with a passion and love telling it to people to see there shocked expressions. OK, I'm peacing...I've had more than enough of this thread. "Nice guy to have a beer with" and  "a New England (yea) elitist" is really a contradiction of terms. Think of it Not really. New England has some of the best microbreweries.

Man! I'd love to have a beer with you!

stonebeard wrote: JJLehto wrote: Its TOTALLY contradictory. That's why I laugh at the idea of Bush being "The Cowboy" the Good ol Boy from Texas, the guy you could sit down with and have a beer. Because that's not what he is at all. Another thing I like shocking people with was that Bush was born in Connecticut. Some reactions were priceless Yeah, not too many cowboys snorted coke, went to Yale, and crashed into trees (all at once? i don't remember...)

Not just Yale, don't forget the prestigious private High School, OH and I believe his Dad was head of some club....what was it called? Damn, its slipping....oh that's right it was the CIA....

The T wrote: IVNord, as nfar as I know, Obama has surrounded himself of a group of people that know a lot about economics. Don't you think he has people around him that may actually know a little about economics? What if they happen to be right and you're wrong? Can youn admit the possibility that you might once in your lifetime be wrong? Do you know 100% sure as a fact what the future will hold?

Edited by IVNORD - June 12 2009 at 15:54