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The T 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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 Posted: June 12 2009 at 13:07 |
 IVNORD wrote:
The T wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
See that's the thing. I agree, and I wish it was that way. But you know full well that the American voter base is VERY concerned with looks, appearance, just how the candidate comes across. And competence and wisdom has not been proven a necessity. Like I said I wish candidates were based on merit, but we know thats hardly the case. |
Does it apply to Obama too? |
The thing with Obama is that he has looks while Republicans look defeated, he has the appearance while Republicans look grumpy, Obama comes across as a bringer of hope instead of a bringer of doom like Republicans; Competence and wisdom are earned with time, but he looks and talks like he actually one day be wise, |
So as long as Obama comes across as a bringer of hope and he looks and talks like he actually one day be wise, it doesn't matter what he does? That speaks volumes. Oh yes... In the end the American voter, we all agree, is kind of dumb. 8 years ago they chose the guy they would more likely want to have a beer with, now they preferred someone who looks and talks smart.... And looks like is the right person for the job... But we can't know for sure until after he's given the chance... which takes MORE THAN 3 MONTHS.
The T wrote:
He's a black person |
Why are you saying this? If you quoted the whole thing, it would make much more sense, but following the Sean hannitty school of (mis)quoting, you didn't. I said:
"He's a black person raised without father who always has been first in anything he's ever done, so he has some merit, unlike the spoiled drunk brat we just had... memb er of the Republican party.. " Being black, in this country of yours, and being first in everything he has done, plus being raised with no father, shows some extra merit.... That's what my post intended to mean. But this Fox News-style of quoting obviously affects my original idea...
The T wrote:
IVNord wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
Though I must agree I do ACTUALLY think Obama is an intelligent man, I'm glad to see an intellectual return to the Dems. I thought they were supposed to be the intellectual party...
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So is the $2 Trillion deficit an act of intelligence, or confidence, or wisdom? Or all of the above? As I recall Bush was branded an a****le for running a $500 billion deficit. |
No... Bush was called an a****le because he couldn't talk in complete sentences and because constantly he appeared like a fool... the deficit was not the reason for the name calling... |
Which brings us to square one - the American voter base is VERY concerned with looks, appearance, just how the candidate comes across. The American voter that your system has breed... the system where people are told money is everything and education is worthless The deficit does not matter. His speach impairment - that's what's importatnt.
By the way, you ignored my question. Bush is no more. Bush is history. Forget Bush. You are facing a calamity being brought upon you by YOUR president. Hope you realize that. I wonder who you will be blaiming in 4 years. I will be blaming Obama if in 4 YEARS the country's is worse than it is right now.... but I'll wait at least 4 YEARS... or maybe 2... not THREE MONTHS....
Obviously, Obama doesn't represent you, as you say "YOUR president"... So who's your president?
The T wrote:
Even dumber is to judge a president on three months in office.... |
Really? Is it that dumb? Don't give me this bullsh*t please. With all the crap he managed to do in his three months in office, Obama is firmly on track to become a bigger a****le than Bush and Clinton combined. |
Yes, it IS DUMB. It's more than that, but I won't say it. I'm sorry he's trying to turn your country into something else man... Let's wait a while....
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 13:05 |
Finnforest wrote:
Fair enough, but the expenditures are supposed to be temporary and were started by Bush (bailouts). They are unsustainable and will be dialed back when the economy recovers. If not, he'll fail and be trounced at the polls in 4 years. |
Oh, and speaking of scaling back, the health care plan will stay with us forever. If it's enacted into law the way the stimulus package was, without even reading it, well, you tell me what the deficits will be.
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 13:00 |
Finnforest wrote:
Fair enough, but the expenditures are supposed to be temporary and were started by Bush (bailouts). They are unsustainable and will be dialed back when the economy recovers. If not, he'll fail and be trounced at the polls in 4 years. |
Look, under the current circumstances I am WITH Keynes - we have to spend our way out of this recession. But you cannot simply print money and distrubute it to all who wants it. If you create new unsupported money, at the very least you must spend it on creating something tangible, such as roads and bridges. If you give every citizen a million bucks, sure, you will move goods from the shelves, people will start buying, but it will be a very short-lived recovery. If you don't create new wealth with new money, you create inflation and just another bubble. You cant allocate only 20% of the $800B to public works and tell me with an honest face that your stimulus package will pull us out of this sh*t. Rather such waste would require a stimulus package every 6 months or so.
As for the bailout, it's just one more example of what a bad manager our government is. But the goal of the bailout was to save the financial system, so, reluctantly, I admit it was worth it. I don't expect any good things from the auto industry bailout though . So far the way they do it it stinks.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:58 |
America has become a narcissistic paradise... We're only first on thinking we're first.... But if you see any statistics, the US trails many many nations in education, healthcare, everything that matters.... except who buys the most expensive sh*t...
Wht you said about goodness, simplicity and modesty, I hope they come back... A start is caring more for other people and not only for ourselves... which is the slogan of the right wing anyway.,..
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:43 |
And that will mean the end of the American empire? ........... Lot of smart people are quite concerned that the US will never recover......I personnaly think that Americans' greatest attribute is their resolve when they are kicked in the nuts. But when they become fat arrogant cats, they are certainly not the superpower they claim to be. America's greatest characteristic is their inherent goodness, simplicity and modesty, which shines only after tragedy , not strangely before........ 
Edited by tszirmay - June 12 2009 at 12:43
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:42 |
Finnforest wrote:
Actually I find the old care more about the young than vice versa, but that's just my experience and completely anecdotal.
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Yeah, like this guy: http://crabbyoldfart.wordpress.com/by Donald Mills
"The problem with young people today is that they slouch.
When I was a boy, kids were expected to stand up straight. Only old
people slouched and that was because they had earned the right to do
so. Old folks had “the stoop” – a slouch of honor that you were awarded
after a life time of hard work mining coal, forging steel or raising a
dozen children in a dirt floor shack.
If I had ever slouched around my house, my old mom would have beaten
me senselessness with a lemon reamer and then locked me the root cellar
to think about the error of my ways.
But these young people today, they’re all hunched over like teenaged
Quasimodos with ill-fitting trousers and size 14 high tops. It’s
disrespectful, disgraceful and un-American.
They drag themselves down the street with their concave backs,
warped morals and damned superior attitudes. It’s like someone has
removed their spines and replaced them with red liquorice and
arrogance.
Now ask yourself…what gal’s gonna want you to court her if you’re a
semi-erect hunchback without the common decency to stand up straight
and look her in the eye? And hey, junior, unless you’re looking for a
job in witchcraft, bell ringing or evil science I’d say it’s not going
to help you find work either.
This needs to end now. It’s the thin edge of a dangerous wedge."
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 17340
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:37 |
Fair enough, but the expenditures are supposed to be temporary and were started by Bush (bailouts). They are unsustainable and will be dialed back when the economy recovers. If not, he'll fail and be trounced at the polls in 4 years.
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:32 |
Finnforest wrote:
Settle down IV. Your concerns are valid, but it is WAY too soon to put this economy on Obama. You have to give any president about 2 years before the full weight of their policies are in place and then you can torch the guy. It is ludicrous to say this economy is his fault after 5 months or whatever.....you know better. |
Hey man, I didn't say it's his fault. He inherited a mess but he's job is to clean the mess, not create a bigger one. If Bush's $500 billion deficit wasn't bad enouch, Obama is wasting money at 4 times his speed. In 2 years we will add $4 t to the existing $12. If you have any doubt where we will end up with such fiscal policies, history can provide you with plenty of clues.
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:27 |
JJLehto wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
Finnforest wrote:
Well I don't give a rip what any of them look like, nor do I mind old people. I want competence and wisdom of some degree.
It alarms me that a Palin could get so far in a major party without the party itself taking him/her down. It is irresponsible the way they stick behind someone so ill prepared for the world stage and the nuke button. And I'd say that if her pretty face graced the Democratic party as well.
And yes, for those about to point out Obama's lack of experience, I do believe there is no contest between the two in terms of gravitas. I understand that opinion is subject to debate. 
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See that's the thing. I agree, and I wish it was that way. But you know full well that the American voter base is VERY concerned with looks, appearance, just how the candidate comes across. And competence and wisdom has not been proven a necessity. Like I said I wish candidates were based on merit, but we know thats hardly the case. |
Does it apply to Obama too?
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I think you're saying was looks important in voting for Obama.....again for me no. Are there people out there who voted for him BECAUSE he was black? Yea, of course....and it's just as wrong as voting against someone for such reasons.
Oh, I got it now... no I didn't mean his race. Actually the fact that he's black is the only good thing about his presidency so far.
JJLehto wrote:
Though I must agree I do ACTUALLY think Obama is an intelligent man, I'm glad to see an intellectual return to the Dems. I thought they were supposed to be the intellectual party...
|
So is the $2 Trillion deficit an act of intelligence, or confidence, or wisdom? Or all of the above? As I recall Bush was branded an a****le for running a $500 billion deficit. |
Well, a****le isn't what I would call that. THAT would incompetence, or just apathy.
I actually don't think Bush was an a****le, or a bad guy. I think he was just sheltered in his little bubble world. It would explain SO much, but him as a person, I'm sure he really was a nice guy. |
You're so sweet. Do you like every president? No matter if he conducts a war with arrogant ignorance, runs huge deficits, imposes his own policies with blatant disregard for the constitution? A nice guy indeed.
JJLehto wrote:
As for Obama's 2 trillion deficit, I'm sure you wont even believe this....but he HAS spoken for fiscal responsibility. |
I even watched him speak!! What an entertainment it was! I love when politicians speak about that. Especially Democrats. And especially him and Pelosi.
JJLehto wrote:
Such as reinstalling PAYGO, which would make sure any proposed bill can NOT run a deficit...there has to be the money to pay for it. |
Sure thing. They just exclude $3 trillion in spending from the pay-as-you go. And you know the translation of this phrase of course - higher taxes. Why not cut spending? You don't increase your spending if you don't have money, do you?
JJLehto wrote:
Obama has also talked about cutting programs (yes) that don't work. However, this is once the economy recovers.
These gargantuan stimulis package's are NOT the norm he said, just what is necessary for the time and once we pull through we must have fiscal responsibility.
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I went on reading the stimulus package as soon as it became available. I browsed thru 100 pages and gave up on this bullsh*t. Not to mention all the waste which I'd hoped to be no more than 50% and which amounted to over 80% -- what really struck me was the amount of money allocated to the so-called "administering of the funds." Do you know what it means? It means that Obama is going to hire a bunch of jerks to sit on their collective ass and do nothing. As if we don't have enough of these folks in the department of transportation, and dept of education, etc. Is that the 4 million jobs he promised to create?
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tszirmay
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 6673
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:26 |
Finnforest wrote:
Actually I find the old care more about the young than vice versa, but that's just my experience and completely anecdotal.
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Very true, I will skip the amazing context for now (but can expand on it later) but the Chinese have a saying "A society that disprespects their elders is doomed to vanish"  Age is just an effing number, no more ! I am 53 and the ladies think I am 39! Maybe I should run for office (or run for orifice!  )
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:25 |
EDIT
Edited by The T - June 12 2009 at 12:33
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:18 |
Papa's got a brand new bag. 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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crimhead
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 10 2006
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 19236
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:13 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
And now for something completely different:
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I can't blame the man. I'd do the same if I was there.
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 17340
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:08 |
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Settle down IV. Your concerns are valid, but it is WAY too soon to put this economy on Obama. You have to give any president about 2 years before the full weight of their policies are in place and then you can torch the guy. It is ludicrous to say this economy is his fault after 5 months or whatever.....you know better.
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:07 |
And now for something completely different:
Edited by Slartibartfast - June 12 2009 at 12:18
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 12:03 |
The T wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
See that's the thing. I agree, and I wish it was that way. But you know full well that the American voter base is VERY concerned with looks, appearance, just how the candidate comes across. And competence and wisdom has not been proven a necessity. Like I said I wish candidates were based on merit, but we know thats hardly the case. |
Does it apply to Obama too? |
The thing with Obama is that he has looks while Republicans look defeated, he has the appearance while Republicans look grumpy, Obama comes across as a bringer of hope instead of a bringer of doom like Republicans; Competence and wisdom are earned with time, but he looks and talks like he actually one day be wise, |
So as long as Obama comes across as a bringer of hope and he looks and talks like he actually one day be wise, it doesn't matter what he does? That speaks volumes.
The T wrote:
He's a black person |
Why are you saying this?
The T wrote:
IVNord wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
Though I must agree I do ACTUALLY think Obama is an intelligent man, I'm glad to see an intellectual return to the Dems. I thought they were supposed to be the intellectual party...
|
So is the $2 Trillion deficit an act of intelligence, or confidence, or wisdom? Or all of the above? As I recall Bush was branded an a****le for running a $500 billion deficit. |
No... Bush was called an a****le because he couldn't talk in complete sentences and because constantly he appeared like a fool... the deficit was not the reason for the name calling... |
Which brings us to square one - the American voter base is VERY concerned with looks, appearance, just how the candidate comes across. The deficit does not matter. His speach impairment - that's what's importatnt.
By the way, you ignored my question. Bush is no more. Bush is history. Forget Bush. You are facing a calamity being brought upon you by YOUR president. Hope you realize that. I wonder who you will be blaiming in 4 years.
The T wrote:
Even dumber is to judge a president on three months in office.... |
Really? Is it that dumb? Don't give me this bullsh*t please. With all the crap he managed to do in his three months in office, Obama is firmly on track to become a bigger a****le than Bush and Clinton combined.
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crimhead
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 10 2006
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 19236
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 11:47 |
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 11:44 |
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Honestly, politicians have been bending the american taxpayer over a barrel for the last half century, so I'll believe it when I see it.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 11:28 |
IVNORD wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
Finnforest wrote:
Well I don't give a rip what any of them look like, nor do I mind old people. I want competence and wisdom of some degree.
It alarms me that a Palin could get so far in a major party without the party itself taking him/her down. It is irresponsible the way they stick behind someone so ill prepared for the world stage and the nuke button. And I'd say that if her pretty face graced the Democratic party as well.
And yes, for those about to point out Obama's lack of experience, I do believe there is no contest between the two in terms of gravitas. I understand that opinion is subject to debate.
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See that's the thing. I agree, and I wish it was that way. But you know full well that the American voter base is VERY concerned with looks, appearance, just how the candidate comes across. And competence and wisdom has not been proven a necessity. Like I said I wish candidates were based on merit, but we know thats hardly the case. |
Does it apply to Obama too?
I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I think you're saying was looks important in voting for Obama.....again for me no. Are there people out there who voted for him BECAUSE he was black? Yea, of course....and it's just as wrong as voting against someone for such reasons.
JJLehto wrote:
Though I must agree I do ACTUALLY think Obama is an intelligent man, I'm glad to see an intellectual return to the Dems. I thought they were supposed to be the intellectual party...
|
So is the $2 Trillion deficit an act of intelligence, or confidence, or wisdom? Or all of the above? As I recall Bush was branded an a****le for running a $500 billion deficit. |
Well, a****le isn't what I would call that. THAT would incompetence, or just apathy. I actually don't think Bush was an a****le, or a bad guy. I think he was just sheltered in his little bubble world. It would explain SO much, but him as a person, I'm sure he really was a nice guy. As for Obama's 2 trillion deficit, I'm sure you wont even believe this....but he HAS spoken for fiscal responsibility. Such as reinstalling PAYGO, which would make sure any proposed bill can NOT run a deficit...there has to be the money to pay for it. Bush abandoned this with his 2003 tax plan FYI. Obama has also talked about cutting programs (yes) that don't work. However, this is once the economy recovers. These gargantuan stimulis package's are NOT the norm he said, just what is necessary for the time and once we pull through we must have fiscal responsibility.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: June 12 2009 at 10:52 |
IVNORD wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
See that's the thing. I agree, and I wish it was that way. But you know full well that the American voter base is VERY concerned with looks, appearance, just how the candidate comes across. And competence and wisdom has not been proven a necessity. Like I said I wish candidates were based on merit, but we know thats hardly the case. |
Does it apply to Obama too? |
The thing with Obama is that he has looks while Republicans look defeated, he has the appearance while Republicans look grumpy, Obama comes across as a bringer of hope instead of a bringer of doom like Republicans; Competence and wisdom are earned with time, but he looks and talks like he actually one day be wise, unlike our former president. He's a black person raised without father who always has been first in anything he's ever done, so he has some merit, unlike the spoiled drunk brat we just had... memb er of the Republican party..
IVNord wrote:
JJLehto wrote:
Though I must agree I do ACTUALLY think Obama is an intelligent man, I'm glad to see an intellectual return to the Dems. I thought they were supposed to be the intellectual party...
|
So is the $2 Trillion deficit an act of intelligence, or confidence, or wisdom? Or all of the above? As I recall Bush was branded an a****le for running a $500 billion deficit. |
No... Bush was called an a****le because he couldn't talk in complete sentences and because constantly he appeared like a fool... the deficit was not the reason for the name calling... Bush, I have to agree, did a lot of merit to actually earn his nickname...
Even dumber is to judge a president on three months in office.... Even Bush was given a lot more time...
Edited by The T - June 12 2009 at 10:53
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