The Atheist - Agnostic - Non religious thread

Debating faith is a bit like debating Abortion though....it's rarely going to end well.....and tends to just solidify the views you held previously.  Mainly useful for the sport of joust I guess. 

I still think the only honest answer to faith questions is "I don't know."  If you don't at least start with the premise that you could be wrong, whatever your view, you're not being intellectually honest. 

avalanchemaster wrote: so back on track: good books for Atheists who want to temper weigh their individual ideas against others'???? I personally really enjoyed Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion" as well as the trilogy I previously mentioned, "His Dark Materials" by Philip Pullman....the first book was made into a terribly rendered movie:  The Golden Compass- but I assure you, the books are nothing short of AMAZING!

Any of the Four Horseman material:
Dawkins, Dennet, Harris, Hitchens.

Here is a debate DVD.
Hitchens vs. Craig
Which I attended.
http://www.biola.edu/academics/professional-studies/apologetics/events/

avalanchemaster wrote: Finnforest wrote: avalanchemaster wrote: Finnforest, what is the origin and context of your Sagan quote at the bottom of your posts?  Is it relevant to this topic?  I think so, but want to know more about it! I don't know what book or speech that came from, but yes, it would be relevant to this thread.  Sagan was an agnostic.  And a great mind.  And an avid cannabis user.  cool.  back on track!  what of his would you recommend reading/seeing/listening to?

I'm not sure about books, its been so long since I've read stuff like that.  But I can heartily recommend his TV series Cosmos if you haven't seen it.  Wonderfully entertaining and informative.  A bit dated now in terms of the look, but still inspiring. 

at least the religious members have not tried to push religion itself in this thread, and wouldn't things get a little dull without debate?  I mean a bunch of frustrated non-believers like us saying "yeah I agree, there's no God" ..sounds like a blast      I was interested, though, to hear what Windhawk had to say about the apparent rise of organized Atheism in his country, which would tend to lend credit to what Ivan suggests about how some see it, and where it might be heading in the future as the Catholic church continues to slowly lose power.  A religious Atheism would be a contradiction to at least half its community, if the posts in this thread are any indication.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: avalanchemaster wrote: so are you hanging your head in defeat, because Dean is the only one worthy of your respect?  Shouldn't respect just be a mutual thing to begin with, or do you only answer to those whom have matched your intellectual stature?  Just curious, because that is how it seems.  I would think you would take a hint from good old Daniel in the lion's den and speak to all of us without fear, yet with respect (and certainly without the apparent reproach).    Please, most of the members here are asking to stop this, some like King by Tor are pretty angry. For God's sake you even implied in your last post that i shouldn't be here as you don't visit the Christian thread (With which i have no connection), And still you question why I leave?   I answer Dean because we have been directly debating one with the other for several pages, that's all, I'm not leaving in defeat or triumph, I'm just leaving because the memebrs who started this thread want to discuss other issues.   Iván

okay dude.  Most of my posts have been rather jocular, but apparently that gets lost online.  No offense intended.  I was just trying to ascertain your intent... that's all.  Carry on!  I didn't know you were not part of the christian thread...I was not trying to assume, merely making an example of why posting in some threads with a certain intent may not be a good idea..... I bet some even hate what I have said... It's not my intent to be a jerk.  I just come off as sassy sometimes....

so back on track:

good books for Atheists who want to temper weigh their individual ideas against others'????

I personally really enjoyed Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion"
as well as the trilogy I previously mentioned, "His Dark Materials" by Philip Pullman....the first book was made into a terribly rendered movie:  The Golden Compass- but I assure you, the books are nothing short of AMAZING!

how'd it get outta hand?  Doesn't any/every thread get outta hand where passion is involved?  That is the nature of online anonymity, it makes many into Gods, capable of nastiness, egotism, and no intention to back up their words with their physical manifestation.  If that post was pointed at me, I really don't think I was unfair, and was merely trying to interject, even though apparently my ideas are NOT WORTHY.... oh boy the self-affirmations I am gonna have to do in the mirror tonight are going to keep me up LATE!!!!!!    

Seriously people, I think time both sides go back to their respective posts.
This has gotten out of hand. Discussion is great but this has turned nasty.
People from ALL sides are saying pretty disrespectful things now.

MovingPictures07 wrote: avalanchemaster wrote: MovingPictures07 wrote: JJLehto wrote: King By-Tor wrote: Jedi is a religion these days. I find it funny that the atheists opened this discussion as a topic to chat and the religious folk have crusaded our asses and turned it into a huge debate. You guys are silly with your opinions which you hold as fact - at least we don't go door to door saying, "hi, have you found faith in life and no longer have need for an idol which to fear and give thanks to? Let me tell you about Atheism." Well, Jedi IS a religion to some people. In fact, according to the 2001 census Jedi is the 4th largest religion in England and Wales! Christian: 72.0% No religion: 14.7% Chose not to respond: 7.8% Muslim: 3.1% Hindu: 1.1% Jedi: 0.79% That's nuts. yep.  But it also serves the argument that any religion can be nuts.  The majority of them can be based on good intentions, it is when these good intentions begin to poison the majority of secular life that they become absurd and out of control.  There is no ONE universal truth that suits all people.  That is the danger of these beliefs.... and the nature of beliefs is that they are personal (or at least should be), and yet people make money and ruin lives over these beliefs!!!!  Hello?  Am I the only one that sees the corruption here?  (But you could argue that humans, by their very nature; especially in a post-modern capitalistic society, are corrupt.) You're not the only one; I agree with that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation

Wiki, proving more helpful than the Bible since 2001.