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Orbit 
Forum Newbie
Joined: April 23 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 6
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 Posted: April 25 2009 at 04:20 |
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Someone offered to give me a free Phil Collins VHS the other day.
I took the Prince one instead.
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: April 25 2009 at 04:27 |
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Well both great artists.........Prince video more entertaining perhaps!
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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lazland
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13698
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Posted: April 25 2009 at 05:09 |
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I remember seeing Genesis on the Abacab tour in Birmingham, and an audience member, right from the off, continually shouted "The Knife, The Knife, play The Knife!". Collins eventually brought out a toy rifle and pretended to shoot him. However, much to our surprise and delight, they did actually play it as an "extra" encore piece.
There are some people who will never forgive Collins for the direction the band took after ATTWT, but they always miss the point. The other two were still principal songwriters and agreed almost wholly with the move to writing shorter, catchier tracks, except maybe Banks who loathed the second side of the Genesis LP, a mistake that was never to be repeated.
I also enjoyed Calling All Stations, especially its darker moments, but by then the game commercially was really well and truly up.
Fans who expect bands to continually rehash the original glories upon which they set their love of the band should contain themselves to watching the ridiculous number of tribute bands that are touring. The bands themselves move on, and we either live with it, enjoy, or simply choose not to buy. As I said in my series of Genesis LP reviews, most of the commercial music Genesis wrote as a threesome was damn good commercial music, and I will, for the rest of my life, be grateful to a band, in all its forms, that has given me so much pleasure over the years.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24429
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Posted: April 25 2009 at 10:55 |
 lazland wrote:
Fans who expect bands to continually rehash the original glories upon which they set their love of the band should contain themselves to watching the ridiculous number of tribute bands that are touring. The bands themselves move on, and we either live with it, enjoy, or simply choose not to buy. As I said in my series of Genesis LP reviews, most of the commercial music Genesis wrote as a threesome was damn good commercial music, and I will, for the rest of my life, be grateful to a band, in all its forms, that has given me so much pleasure over the years.
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 I think this quote should be framed and hung up on PA's virtual wall  . Personally, I am not a fan of Genesis' pop years - however, this is not because they betrayed prog, but just because their music leaves me cold, and I don't like Collins' voice that much. On the other hand, I love Yes' 90125, which is equally loathed by prog purists. 'Poppy' and 'commercial' don't automatically mean 'bad' - Peter Gabriel released a number of hit singles, which are damn good commercial music as well (to use Lazland's own words ). I'd rather listen to "Sledgehammer", "Big Time" or "Owner of a Lonely Heart" than to the endless, rambling doodlings of many a 'retro-prog' band.
Edited by Raff - April 25 2009 at 10:55
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: April 25 2009 at 11:07 |
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I still have to ask the question, are the three capable of another album of new material as Genesis?
Edited by Slartibartfast - May 08 2009 at 15:56
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Stooge
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 09 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1003
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Posted: April 25 2009 at 15:29 |
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I don't necessarily think Genesis were bad to their fans by changing their sound. They are also obviosly quite proud of their past as evident from their 1970-1975 boxset interviews and the fact that they played material spanning their entire career on their reunion tour.
I was also thinking about what the original poster said about them telling fans wanting to hear their old stuff in the 80s that "we don't play that crap anymore", such a comment may have been as a response to hecklers (Why you'd pay to go to a concert just to heckle a band, I don't know). These comments from the band may have been made because they wished for the audience to give their new material a chance. I don't know how things were back then, but if I saw Genesis on the Abacab tour, i'd expect the bulk of their set to be from that album, and had I heard Abacab I'd expect that the days of The Musical Box were long gone.
While I'd be upset if I was a Genesis fan when they made the pop transition in the late 70s (or if I was ALIVE in the 70s for that matter), I enjoy Duke quite a bit, and some of And Then There Were 3. At the end of the day, the band has the artistic control for what music they present the fans, and not the other way around.
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esky
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 12 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 643
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Posted: May 07 2009 at 15:37 |
 What a poorly written essay. I mean, simply awful. Hard to take seriously when it's this bad. Better luck next time!
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: May 07 2009 at 16:00 |
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After that atrocious third album without Gabriel I just couldn`t listen to them anymore. I even have difficulty listening to their early stuff to this day. I have to be in a weird mood and even then I can`t get the material from the late seventies onward out of my head. It`s like an old friend being betraying you.
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Nov
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 28 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 523
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Posted: May 07 2009 at 18:13 |
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
Genesis allowed songs alien to their sound constantly on different albums. They again came across arrogant to their fans. |
What are you talking about? "Whodunnit" is as much Genesis as "Supper's Ready" is because they created it. OK, I really dislike the former but I'll defend their right to produce what the f**k they like. Whether you buy it or not is up to you.
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Nov
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 28 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 523
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Posted: May 07 2009 at 18:21 |
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Lucent
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 18 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 259
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Posted: May 07 2009 at 19:05 |
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Congratulations Phil Collins, you're the world's biggest douche.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: May 07 2009 at 22:18 |
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^Now that was useful.
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: May 07 2009 at 23:03 |
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Shhhh, don't anger him. He bites.
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: May 08 2009 at 09:44 |
Lucent wrote:
Congratulations Phil Collins, you're the world's biggest douche. |
I second that. He wrecked the band. In those eighteen months that elapsed between TLLDOB and TOTT you would think they could have found another singer. Needless to say I think I gave TOTT 5 stars in a review for PA.  At that point there seemed to be a glitter of hope. The death knell sounded when Hackett left. All hope faded into black. I remember taking our And Then There Were Three and buning them. It was sort of a voodoo ritual. It obviously achieved opposite results so I`ll personally take some of the blame for the band`s demise.
Edited by Vibrationbaby - May 08 2009 at 09:46
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired
Joined: March 04 2008
Location: Retirement Home
Status: Offline
Points: 3658
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Posted: May 08 2009 at 09:59 |
I have stopped being angry at Phil Collins. I actually respect the guy now (no more camel dung through his bed room window). Genesis gave us some fantastic albums from their second one to Wind & Wuthering. I am listening to these albums a lot. We also have new bands who almost sounds like them. Go and watch THE MUSICAL BOX and/or THE WATCH doing old Genesis songs. I have heard both bands are the ultimate Genesis dream. Sometimes; the world moves on. That's a fact.
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: May 08 2009 at 10:26 |
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Another band that I don`t bother with anymore is Triumvirat. Thinking of burning some of those as well. As simple as ACDC might be they never sold the farm on their fans. They just sold out the Olympic Stadium in Montréal recently in a matter of minutes.
The Musical Box recently played the Bell Centre in Montréal doing TOTT and the promoters were out in the street giving away tickets.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17665
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Posted: May 08 2009 at 10:57 |
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
This is an issue i'd like to address. Fans get irate about the change in direction Genesis took in the 80s, Collins Banks and Rutherford counter argue that bands change.
This retort may appear a reasonable statement by itself, but they managed it in an unreasonable way; |
You gotta love it ... so because some fans got irate ... the artists stink? Ohhh, so Beethoven never changed? Mozart? Sibelius? Lizst?
What bothers me here is this ... what gives a fan, the right to tell me what to compose for his/her pleasure? If you don't like Picasso ... too bad ... go get a picture of an onion for your kitchen! Or a Playboy fold out for your bathroom ... this way at least these artists are of some personal use to you ... regardless of what that is, hey?
| I see this behaviour as arrogant. |
I'm really sorry ... but this is far more arrogant than the artist himself/herself.
IF ... and that is a big IF ... you feel that any music, or art, is there to kiss you and nothing else ... then I am not sure that you will "EVER" appreciate any artists for what they do or did ... because you want something that they are not capable of doing, or have no desire to do ...
You know what bugs me on this? .... it is posted on a "progressive" board ... where the discussion is about the open minded-ness that helps create new musics, new experiences ... and this is like saying ... you can't do that!
There was in the one "Behind the Music" about Metallica ... and someone asked them ... "you sold out" ... and the reply was ... yeah! every night!.
One more thing ... if you have such a strong opinion about an art form and artists involved, why are you not creating your own, instead of expecting others to do it for you?
Edited by moshkito - May 08 2009 at 11:00
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: May 08 2009 at 14:08 |
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Well they lost my business from `78 on. But I guess they don`t really care since they made kazillions satisfying the simple-minded pigeons who fell for their top 40 bubble gum dribble. At least I got to see their concert at the Olympic Stadium in Montréal for free. They couldn`t even synchronize the huge video screen they showed up with with the audio. When they played the old stuff they were just not into it. Didn`t care. It was as if they were being forced into it. I remember talking to a lot of disappointed people on the metro on the way home.
That`s what I`ve always liked about Ian Anderson. He always gave the audience the best of both worlds. Even on the A tour he was playing the older material and loving it. Never saw a Tull concert or bought a Tull record that didn`t deliver.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: May 08 2009 at 15:55 |
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With apologies to Tori Amos
They're a bad band
Mr. Bad Band
And she had enough of him
So the wolves try to dry her eyes
'cause the bad band made her cry
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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American Khatru
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 28 2009
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 732
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Posted: May 09 2009 at 07:41 |
Cheesecakemouse wrote:
This is an issue i'd like to address. Fans get irate about the change in direction Genesis took in the 80s, Collins Banks and Rutherford counter argue that bands change.This retort may appear a reasonable statement by itself, but they managed it in an unreasonable way;
Firstly they dismissed their past...
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There is a great deal of class and care in what Cheese presents here, more than what is usually shown. But I'll be damned if people who dare take a line like this don't end up pilloried on this site, not because they're wrong but because some don't can't stand hearing it. Here in a brotherhood of lovers of music that is, no matter the flavor, if nothing else, demanding. It's weird. I'm with you man. The Cheese does not stand alone! (We may yet become farmers.)
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Genesis were bad to its fans.
